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GerryL
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 423
Location: West Sussex
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 And my response to Ian Pearson's response to my MP
This is what I have just sent off to Mr Pearson
Dear Mr Pearson
I am writing with reference to a letter from you sent via my MP, Laura Moffatt concerning the Pingat Jasa Malaysia.
Firstly, I am concerned that I can get no definitive response from anyone within Government to my question of what is meant by “permission will not formally be given”, which appears in your Ministerial Statement of 31 January 2006.
The decision to withhold this “formal” permission to wear the PJM was based on incomplete/incorrect data, presumably from the MoD. This Government department hardly has the best of reputations for openness and I suspect that this is another such case of their telling you what they think you ought to know, rather than making you aware of the full facts. Of course, I could be doing them a disservice in saying that, as they may be as lacking in knowledge as appears to be the case with just about everyone involved in making the original decision. I can scarcely believe that it was really the Cabinet Office’s intention to recommend to Her Majesty that Her British citizens should be granted second-class status compared with her Australian and New Zealand citizens.
The whole business demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the facts behind the respective British General Service Medals and the PJM. The citation that accompanies the PJM reads “this medal is awarded to the peacekeeping groups amongst the communion countries for distinguished chivalry, gallantry, sacrifice or loyalty in upholding Peninsula of Malaya of Malaysian sovereignty during the period of Emergency and Confrontation”, whereas there is no citation whatever for the GSM, which was issued without ceremony in a white cardboard box and usually by post. It was an early indication of the contempt that was felt by the MoD towards its veterans even then. The PJM citation extends far beyond the qualification criteria laid down for the GSM, and therefore is a different award for different actions. It is also awarded for 90 days service in the prescribed region against the 30 days for the GSM. There are long periods for which the PJM is being awarded, which are not covered by any British medal, so the trite argument that the PJM is a second medal for the same event is not valid. I enclose a spreadsheet that indicates the periods that are covered by the various medals that may, or may not have been awarded during the period covered by the PJM.
You speak of preserving the integrity of the British Honours system. I would suggest that recent revelations have done more damage to that integrity in the eyes of the Electorate than can ever be achieved by allowing 35 000 aging veterans the right to wear the medals that they have earned. The implication that by allowing the PJM to be worn will lessen the integrity says little for your regard for those who made the ultimate sacrifice. Further, it belittles the courageous act that resulted in the award of a VC in 1965. It also insults the Malaysian King, Government and people, and 35 000 British veterans. Whose feelings will be offended by the sight of old soldiers, now in their 60’s and 70’s, wearing a medal that probably most politicians would be unable to recognise anyway?
The final paragraph in your letter to Ms Moffatt muddies waters still further. You admit that the wearing of medals by civilians is not, and cannot be, policed. Another good reason to abandon the ridiculous decision not to allow unrestricted acceptance – a rule that cannot be enforced is a travesty. Your letter than goes on to say “it is up to the individual concerned whether they wish to wear this or any other medal without authority”.
The use of the word “authority” slants the argument in a whole new direction. My dictionary has the following definitions of the word authority:
1. the power or right to control, judge, or prohibit the actions of others;
2. person or group of people having this power, such as a government, police force, etc;
3. a position that commands such a power or right;
4. such a power or right delegated;
5. the ability to influence or control others;
6. an expert or an authoritative work in a particular field;
7. evidence or testimony;
8. confidence resulting from great expertise;
9, a public board or corporation exercising governmental authority.
Exactly which of these definitions are you now invoking? You say that we may wear any medal, without authority, which directly implies that there is a power that can be used to prevent us from wearing any medal that is precluded by this “authority” Please clarify.
There is an old saying, I’m sure that you must have heard it before, that says, “when in a hole, stop digging”. I suggest, Mr Pearson, that you and your colleagues have dug so far down into the hole that you are in danger of a cave in. We campaigners offer you a way out of the hole. Simply reconsider the decision to restrict the acceptance of the PJM and allow it to “formally” be worn, without recourse to any “authority” and you will be extricated from the hole by 35 000 loyal British veterans.
We are fast approaching the 40th Anniversary of the end of the conflict. What better time for HMG to reverse this invidious, mean-minded restriction and prove to 35 000 veterans that their service is honoured.
_________________ Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:22 pm |
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GerryL
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 423
Location: West Sussex
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 Viscount Trenchard
This gentleman is the grandson of the man most widely acknowledged as the founder of the Royal Air Force. After WWI the Generals and the Admirals could see no future for air power in modern warfare and wanted to disband the RAF. Hugh Trenchard fought them tooth and nail and because of his efforts, we had a large number of men who had trained as fitters under the Apprenticeship scheme that he set up, ans we also had the basic pool of aircrew who were to prove invaluable in the early days of WWII. I don't know what the first Viscount would have said, but I'm hoping that the 3rd of that ilk will prove to be a chip off the old block. Here's what I sent him.
Dear Viscount Trenchard
It was with great pride that I successfully gained a place to train as an Aircraft Apprentice at RAF Halton under the scheme introduced by the visionary who was your grandfather. He truly earned the title “Father of the Royal Air Force”.
My training instilled in me the characteristics of tenacity, honour, self confidence and self discipline. It also taught me to strive for success in all of my endeavours. These traits have served me well throughout the subsequent years and I am still honoured to call myself a Trenchard Brat.
Part of my RAF service was in Singapore/Malaysia during the Confrontation of the 1960’s. The Malaysian Government announced last year that it wished to award it Pingat Jasa Malaysia (PJM) to all who served that nation in its early days after Independence. The Australian and New Zealand governments have recommended to Her Majesty that she approves the unrestricted acceptance of the PJM for all of her veterans in those countries. However, the British government has seen fit to recommend to Her Majesty that her British veterans be permitted to accept, but not to wear the medal.
This has at once, placed the British veterans into a second class status when compared with the other veterans. Worse, it has put Her Majesty into the position of unwittingly supporting such a condition. It is an insult to a fellow member of the Commonwealth and to the veterans of what was often a bloody conflict in a hostile conflict.
A group of veterans, from across all Services, is currently mounting a Campaign to persuade HMG to reverse this invidious decision, and to date we have gained the support of:
Lt.Cdr. Ian Fraser VC, DSC, RD and Bar, JP;
Bill Speakman-Pitt VC;
Leslie Thomas OBE;
Drummond Window MBE, RVM;
Dame Vera Lynn DBE, LLD, MMUS
We would deem it great honour if you could see your way to adding your name to our list of prominent supporters
_________________ Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:27 pm |
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'Jock' Fenton
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1222
Location: Ontario, Canada
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 Gerry's letters....
Gerry....I salute you!
_________________ ...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:22 pm |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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 Re: Viscount Trenchard
GerryL wrote:This gentleman is the grandson of the man most widely acknowledged as the founder of the Royal Air Force. ... We would deem it great honour if you could see your way to adding your name to our list of prominent supporters
Wonderful stuff - made my day, Gerry.
Barry
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:55 pm |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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 Re: And my response to Ian Pearson's response to my MP
GerryL wrote:
There is an old saying, I’m sure that you must have heard it before, that says, “when in a hole, stop digging”. I suggest, Mr Pearson, that you and your colleagues have dug so far down into the hole that you are in danger of a cave in. We campaigners offer you a way out of the hole. Simply reconsider the decision to restrict the acceptance of the PJM and allow it to “formally” be worn, without recourse to any “authority” and you will be extricated from the hole by 35 000 loyal British veterans.
We are fast approaching the 40th Anniversary of the end of the conflict. What better time for HMG to reverse this invidious, mean-minded restriction and prove to 35 000 veterans that their service is honoured.
And another belter!
Congrats, Gerry.
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:56 pm |
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ro5=6372
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 1763
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 Re: And my response to Ian Pearson's response to my MP
[quote="BarryF"][quote="GerryL"]
There is an old saying, I’m sure that you must have heard it before, that says, “when in a hole, stop digging”. I suggest, Mr Pearson, that you and your colleagues have dug so far down into the hole that you are in danger of a cave in. We campaigners offer you a way out of the hole. Simply reconsider the decision to restrict the acceptance of the PJM and allow it to “formally” be worn, without recourse to any “authority” and you will be extricated from the hole by 35 000 loyal British veterans.
We are fast approaching the 40th Anniversary of the end of the conflict. What better time for HMG to reverse this invidious, mean-minded restriction and prove to 35 000 veterans that their service is honoured.[/quote]
And another belter!
Congrats, Gerry.[/quote] YEP THATS OBVIOUS TO ANYONE,BUT ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE HUMILITY, AND C.D.F. TO LOOK OVER THE RIM!
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:51 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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Well done Gerry!
_________________ --------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:29 am |
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Paul Alders
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 931
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This ex-BE Brat also says well done Gerry, how can the 3rd viscount say no to that letter.
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:24 am |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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 Re: And my response to Ian Pearson's response to my MP
BarryF wrote:And another belter! Congrats, Gerry.
ro5=6372 wrote:YEP THATS OBVIOUS TO ANYONE,BUT ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE HUMILITY, AND C.D.F. TO LOOK OVER THE RIM!
What's C.D.F. ? ... On second thoughts, don't answer that if it's dodgy or if it's as plain as a pikestaff and the question makes me (anon) look daft! Anon.
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:18 pm |
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Paul Alders
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 931
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 They Work For You
I have just found out that on the They Work For You web site that you can copy & paste your message in their message box.
Now I might be the last one of you to find this out but this will speed up my zapping.
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Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:48 am |
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Paul Alders
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 931
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 Geoffrey Robinson MP
Geoffrey Robinson, my MP last wrote to me on March 30th, saying that he had raised the matter with the Minister responsible and that he would be in touch with me again.
Today I have received another letter from my MP dated May 2nd, saying thank you for your email (I reminded him last week) and it states:
Although I have not yet received a responce to my previous letter on your behalf, I have again contacted the Ministry of Defence about this matter for your comments to be noted.
Of course, I will pass on any information I may receive from theb Minister.
(My scanner is playing up so I couldn't copy the letter)
NOW IF MY MP CAN NOT GET AN ANSWER FROM THESE CATS (that should be spelt with a TW & not a C) WHAT CHANCE ME.
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Wed May 03, 2006 12:22 pm |
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Paul Alders
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 931
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 Gordon Brown
Please note that the email address for Mr Brown the next PM is
ministers@hm-treasury.gsi.gov.uk
The one to browng at parliament gets returned.
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Wed May 03, 2006 4:08 pm |
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Paul Alders
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 931
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 Margaret Beckett
My email of today.
To; Margaret Beckett.
Many congratulations on being given the post of Foreign Secretary.
May I draw your attention to the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal (PJM) awarded to 35,000 Veterans that defended Malaysia between 1956 to 1966 by the King & People of Malaysia, a pro western Islamic state.
New Zealand & Australia have accepted this award in full the British Honours Committee did not. They came up with an unworkable/unlawful ruling of accept but formal permission to wear will not be given.
There is no such ruling, they made it up.
No British Citizen needs permission from anyone to accept a foreign medal if it’s not going to be worn so by definition the fact that HM the Queen has given permission to accept will can also wear this medal along side our campaign medals.
I look forward to your reply on this matter.
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Fri May 05, 2006 11:11 am |
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GerryL
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 423
Location: West Sussex
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 Good one, Paul
Well, you certainly didn't let the grass grow there, Paul. I've just been getting acquainted with the reshuffle and mentioned to the Boss that I didn't now expect to get a reply to the letter I sent to Jack Straw this week. So here we go again - re-educate the politicians.
_________________ Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)
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Fri May 05, 2006 1:11 pm |
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Paul Alders
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 931
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 Margaret Beckett
The first email I used also bounced so I went onto the FCO web site & contact us.
I also have a letter on my desk to post when I walk the dogs saying exactly the same thing.
As the Irish man said "ar 2 b sure 2 b sure"
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Fri May 05, 2006 2:38 pm |
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