Quote:

Richard Dean wrote:
Jock, So what you are saying is that this fight will go on if our just case is rejected

.

Precisely Richard!

Quote:

Richard Dean wrote:
I understand you will not wish to divulge your plans yet, but is there anything we can do in advance?

For the next little while... 'Stand Easy'...but do not 'Stand Down'!


_________________
...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

Just sent this to the four below, lets see if we get an answer.

To chris.edge@fco.gov.uk - Richard.Coney506@mod.uk denis.brennan@cabinet-office.x.gsi.gov.uk - Ian.Keith798@mod.uk

Dear Sir.

A recent BBC Website article on the medals Prince Charles is allowed to wears brings up a few questions pertinent to the Malay Veterans fight for the right to not only have but more importantly to proudly wear their medal, namely the PJM, to this end I wonder if you could spear me a few moments to answer them.

1. BBC Statement: When he was 4 years old the Prince of Wales was awarded the Queen's Coronation Medal - a medal cited to be worn as a souvenir.

................When the MoD, FCO and Cabinet tried to defend their use of the term souvenir in relation to the PJM, they said that it is long-established practice to refer to unwearable medals as "souvenirs".
Q...So, which is right? .
2. BBC Statement: The Prince of Wales Silver and Golden Jubilee medals mark the same event.

...............That is a triple medal.
Q...Does that not make a mockery of the double medal allegation made of the PJM earned on active service?


3. BBC Statement: The Prince of Wales wears Silver and Golden Jubilee medals.
...........By definition they refer to events more than five years ago.
Q...So what happened to the 5 year rule that was applied to the PJM?.


4. BBC Statement: The Prince of Wales is a four star everything in the Armed Forces. He can wear Foreign Decorations from 20-odd Foreign countries.
Q...So what happened to your statement that armed forces aren't allowed to wear Foreign Decorations?

An early response to this communication would be greatly appreciated.

Yours sincerely
George Sanderson.
ex R.A.F. Regiment.

sandy428 wrote:

2. BBC Statement: The Prince of Wales Silver and Golden Jubilee medals mark the same event.

...............That is a triple medal.

Q...Does that not make a mockery of the double medal allegation made of the PJM earned on active service?

Brilliant and searching email, George.

In the unlikely event that you get a reply, and one sufficiently informative to actually provide some sort of response, they may say that the events represented by the Coronation/Jubilee medals were three separate events. (Even as I type those words I see how ludicrous a suggestion that would be).

But if they persist with that approach, they will no doubt have to agree that the Russian 40th/50th/60 "Anniversary of the end of the Great Patriotic War" wearable_with_HM's_approval medals fall into the same category (currently, they only acknowledge the first to be wearable, claiming the next two would be double and triple medals!! Quite different to the Coronation and the two Jubilees, then!!).

Except, of course, that the Jubilee medals witness the ever-increasing spiral of decay in this country while the Russian medals allegedly witness the reverse in theirs (and in this country but only if you happen to be a Chelsea supporter)!

Barry

Barry


_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

..



Last edited by ro5=6372 on Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total

BarryF wrote:

sandy428 wrote:

2. BBC Statement: The Prince of Wales Silver and Golden Jubilee medals mark the same event.

...............That is a triple medal.

Q...Does that not make a mockery of the double medal allegation made of the PJM earned on active service?

Brilliant and searching email, George.

In the unlikely event that you get a reply, and one sufficiently informative to actually provide some sort of response, they may say that the events represented by the Coronation/Jubilee medals were three separate events. (Even as I type those words I see how ludicrous a suggestion that would be).

But if they persist with that approach, they will no doubt have to agree that the Russian 40th/50th/60 "Anniversary of the end of the Great Patriotic War" wearable_with_HM's_approval medals fall into the same category (currently, they only acknowledge the first to be wearable, claiming the next two would be double and triple medals!! Quite different to the Coronation and the two Jubilees, then!!).

Except, of course, that the Jubilee medals witness the ever-increasing spiral of decay in this country while the Russian medals allegedly witness the reverse in theirs (and in this country but only if you happen to be a Chelsea supporter)!

Barry

Barry

Gents I have been giving this a bit of thought before adding anything and this is where I am going in the way of questions, your comments are helpful!

Prince Charles was a child aged FOUR when his mother was Crowned and as such not even yet a schoolboy!
Secondly, he had completed his service with the Royal Navy and therefore was not serving as a regular in the military as such, when given/awarded the Silver Jubilee medal.
The same applies to his Golden Jubilee medal.

In theory he was a civilian, albeit a Royal at these three distinctive junctures in time, yet he wears them on his uniforms?

I know the government and possibly the MoD is going to say he holds rank in many regiments and as such is entitled to wear his Silver and Golden Jubilee medals, some may even agree on the last two.

But since when does a four year old get to wear his medal when he grows up on his or any uniform?

Our medal even if it IS awarded by a greatful foreign country, was backdated to when WE were in uniforn and not out of it.

If any of us were lucky enough to have received either the Silver or Gold Jubilee medal and take up a rank or position requiring a uniform. (ATC, ACF etc). would we get away with wearing those medals we were given as civilians.

Possibly, that is until you happen to let slip, you were only FOUR at the time?

More thought and research needed by me on this I think.

It does tick me off that we only saw a limited number of Silver anniversary medals issued to the Armed Forces and obviously somebody woke up when the Golden one was issued!
(Mind you the forces were less in number thanks to the government).

Keith.
________
COACH HANDBAGS



Last edited by KJF on Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:03 am; edited 1 time in total

Quote:

Richard...

Thank you very much for your insightful post requesting information regarding the rumoured 'Second Update to the Rebuttal'....you may be aware that I do not don my 'Chairman's Hat' very often, but your question deserves an 'official' answer and I'd like to provide you with that herewith.

Work on assembling the 'Second Update to the Rebuttal' has been proactively in progress for some weeks now and it is in fact, broadly established in draft form. On 6th November we informed the FCO, MoD, Cabinet Office and all members of the HD Committee that our work on the Second Update was being held up because those administering the PJM were not supplying answers to our questions, see http://www.fight4thepjm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=921.

The 'Second Update to the Rebuttal' is a wide ranging document which introduces many, as yet, unexplained discrepancies. The new document, while in it's finishing stages can, of course, still be expanded to include any additional topic of significant interest to members...we would request that any who feel they have something to contribute should do so by sending a message to update2@fight4thepjm.org.

We hope, of course, that it will not prove necessary to issue this third formal document. This is a single issue for the Fight4thePJM and the 'Second Update' will be rendered redundant if the HD Committee recommends, this month, that formal permission to wear the PJM no longer be withheld from British citizens.

I would add, as a caveat, that the aforementioned suggestions should be forwarded ASAP, as we have no desire to delay the anticipated result and wish to be adequately prepared in advance....I might also add that an appropriate 'Preamble' designed to precede the 'Second Rebuttal' also currently exists in draft format.

I trust that this will answer the question entirely to your satisfaction?

Many thanks for your continuing support,

John 'Jock' Fenton
Chairman Fight4thePJM Association
"Pingat Kami - Hak Kami"

With regard to my previous post on the topic of the 'Second Update to the Rebuttal' (quoted here for clarity)....Let me say that we are delighted at the response elicited by our request for ideas from the general membership....You guys are simply tremendous!....and you provided us with a few concepts that we hadn't even considered!....of course you also managed to come up with some 'creative terminology', which, while some of it was both, highly descriptive and decidedly humorous, will have to (of regrettable necessity) be expunged from our final draft.

The reason for this post is to issue a 'Last Call' for items for inclusion....we are now 'putting the finishing touches' and MUST have any further submission for consideration submitted immediately!

As before, please send any ideas to [url]update2@fight4thepjm.org[/url]

Thank you all for your help...


_________________
...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

Received this reply to an e.mail I sent to Denis Brennan on the 17 November and posted on the forum,looks like a waste of time as non of the questions asked have been dealt with,but still someone in his department did send a reply witch is more than can be said for the other three that the e.mail was sent to namely Chris Edge, Richard Coney and Ian Keith, but as its nearly christmas i might yet get a reply.



George Sanderson.
Ex R.A.F. Regiment

PS, A Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to the Fight4theright team and every one else on this site.

George

Thanks for your efforts, don't be put off by them!

This is the bog standard reply most of us are getting unfortunately. We are being made to be the guilty party in sending in letters when we did not make this stupid unlawful decision. Of the MANY letters I have received from HMG I am awaiting the day I receive one like you have received. If that happens then everyone will hear about it, that I can guarantee


_________________
--------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
---------------------------------------------------------------

sandy428 wrote:

Received this reply to an e.mail I sent to Denis Brennan on the 17 November and posted on the forum,looks like a waste of time as non of the questions asked have been dealt with ...

George,

Thanks for posting that letter. It seems that you have received a reply similar to John's (Semengo13) at http://www.fight4thepjm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8045&highlight=#8045.

I have been addressing these issues recently in a letter to the Gang of Three+One at http://www.fight4thepjm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8056#8056.

Thanks for persevering. As John Cooper says, we must not give up. That is what they hope we shall do.

We have right on our side ... and a hundred or so of our elected MPs ... and more Generals than you can shake a baton at!

We shall win. We know that now. But whether the red noses (faces?) of Whitehall join Rudolph and advise us soon is another matter?

All the best,

Barry


_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

Thanks for that John but dont worry I will keep on at them
Per Ardua
Sandy

sandy428 wrote:

Thanks for that John but dont worry I will keep on at them
Per Ardua
Sandy

Steady as a 'Rock' George, the RAFs All Weather Fighter!


_________________
--------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
---------------------------------------------------------------

I am checking back through the family lineage to see if I am related to the Queen. If it transpires that I am, I will ask her if I can be an Admiral, General and Air Marshal, and can I wear some foreign decorations please... the PJM will do for a start.

Oops, I think I can hear, either the measured tread of the Beef Eaters or the men in white coats, coming to take me away.

Will be sending postcards from the Tower of London, in future.

Yours trussed up for Christmas.

Arthur

ps I've ditched the diet...the spirit was willing, but the flesh proved to be weaker.