Image of the PJM Medal
Banner Text = Fight For the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal
Reply to topic Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Bully's Beef
Author Message
Reply with quote
Post Bully's Beef 
We all know that when a bully beefs about something, he (and in this case, she) is typically trying to chicken out, and probably telling porkies in order to take lambs to the slaughter.

Here is a letter in which Heads of section in no less than three Government Departments try and gang up on me in order to avoid answering my letters that contain important questions about the PJM. They are trying to bully me. But they've picked on the wrong man. Read their letter:







Their letter represents more of their faulted 'thinking' - it was a mistake. In it they are economic with the truth to try and mislead readers. And they are also trying to raise a few umbrellas for themselves.

Anyway, we all know what to do when bullies try it on. Confront them. Here is my reply:







Their letter serves only to inspire more questions.

Where's me quill ...

Barry



Last edited by BarryF on Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:06 pm; edited 3 times in total

_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Bully's Beef 
Cracking response Barry.

I will be e-mailing the 3 signatories to express my full support in what you are doing and to your response to their letter.

Can't have them thinking for one minute that you do not have full support for what you are doing.


Evil or Very Mad

View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Re: Bully's Beef 
Semengo13 wrote:
Can't have them thinking for one minute that you do not have full support for what you are doing.


Thanks Semengo13.

It is very much appreciated.

The suits won't want to know we remain united in this fight. Because that is what they are not.

And that is why we are clear in our submissions - and they are totally confused in theirs.

Barry


_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post  
You know all of us give our full support to you Barry.

I know how you must feel, to be kicked in the Ghoulies once is bad enough but twice is not within The Queensberry Rules. The barstools will pay, the demonstartions planned will shake them to their old archaic roots. Wink


_________________
--------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
---------------------------------------------------------------
View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Bullys Beef 
Just sent this off to Mr Brennan.

"Dear Mr. Brennan,

May I refer to your letter of the 5th of October to Mr. Barry Fleming, a letter also signed by Sarah Gillett, Director of Protocol, Foreign and Commonwealth Office and Ian Keith, Head, Defence Services Secretary, Honours and Ceremonial. As I do not have the e-mail addresses of M/s Gillett and Mr Keith, I would be most grateful if you could ensure that they have sight of this letter.

In light of your response to Mr. Fleming, I am moved to make clear my full support for him and the questions he continues to put, certainly on my behalf. I am sure others will speak for themselves. Such questions often arise from the various reponses he, and many others receive, in trying to understand a decision which in simple terms, is seen to be unfair and contrary to any sense of natural justice.

You will be well aware of the decision by the Honours and Decorations Committee to which I refer.

Whilst I can understand your frustration at the overwhelming level of communications Government is receiving on this matter- your response of the 5th of October indicates, I believe, just how much- I hope you will understand that those of us who served our country during the Malaysian 'Emergency' and 'Confrontation' feel deeply and passionately that this decision is inherently wrong.

First the initial refusal of this Government to accept the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal, given in good spirit, from a friendly and honourable nation and the insult that caused, and then after much pressure, to accept it on our behalf but without the formal permission to wear it. All this at the same time as the Governments and Head of State (Her Majesty the Queen) of our colleagues in arms from Australia, New Zealand etc. accepted with good will, the same award, for the same service, at the same time.

Mr. Brennan, we are told that there are rules that prevent permission being given, if so, I say these rules are wrong. No right minded person could look at this situation and say it is fair.

It would cost this country absolutely nothing to make 35,000 Veterans (and voters) happy and to pay respect to the hundreds of our colleagues who paid the ultimate price, and the many many more, who had their lives changed for ever by their injuries in both body and mind.

My contribution to events in Malaya/Malaysia were of little significance, but I have had the honour to communicate with real heroes in this fight. This is why we will continue to fight, will continue to inform others by all lawful means, continue to press for this wrong to be righted.

With respect Mr. Brennan, we will not go away, we will not tire of the fight, we are in for the long haul, as long as it takes.

Please advise that this decision is reversed.

Yours sincerely,

John Rushton,

(Address etc. added to letter)"



Last edited by Semengo13 on Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:15 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Re: Bullys Beef 
Semengo13 wrote:
Just sent this off to Mr Brennan.


A brilliant letter, John.

If it does not fall on deaf ears, perhaps Denis Brennan will understand the depth and breadth of feeling about this matter.

Barry


_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Re: Bully's Beef 
[quote="BarryF"]

Here is a letter in which Heads of section in no less than three Government Departments try and gang up on me in order to avoid answering my letters /quote]

The term that springs immediately to my mind - "The Three Stooges".


_________________
Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: Bully's Beef 
John Feltham wrote:
BarryF wrote:


Here is a letter in which Heads of section in no less than three Government Departments try and gang up on me in order to avoid answering my letters


The term that springs immediately to my mind - "The Three Stooges".


John,

As you know, I was not intimidated by the letter. I found it oddly encouraging.

Because it is further evidence of what we have been saying all along - obfuscation of the truth and spin is endemic in just about everything the suits produce.

In employing the rather transparent technique of misleading misinformation, the letter itself is yet another example of the type of obfuscation that is now endemic in the civil service. 'Misleading' statements, spin, lies by omission etc., are now seen by them as perfectly acceptable techniques to use in order to achieve their agenda that they wish to impose on Parliament and on British citizens.

That is why I found the letter encouraging - and at the same time utterly depressing. To think that once upon a time I was a stalwart supporter of all things British, including our civil service. Not any more.

Civility is not just about courtesy and the tone of language, it is about truth. Some civil servants have tried to block PJMers by inferring that that they have been uncivil because of the strength of their statements - and as a result the suits do not have to reply.

But I accuse those same civil servants of behaving in an uncivil manner whenever they employ their obfuscation techniques. What could be more uncivil than writing to me telling me they had cooperated and answered questions when they knew full well that they had not. The Uncivil, Untruthful, Service.

Barry

PS By the way, that letter follows a pattern that I have got used to over the last few months. I haven't bothered to post other examples but I just thought PJMers and our supporters would like to read this particular one.



Last edited by BarryF on Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post A further 2 cents worth 
Herewith a little 'billet doux' (note fluent bilingualism!) to Mr Brennan with modified copies to his associates (or perhaps accomplices, would be more the appropriate term?)
==============================================

Mr Denis Brennan
Ceremonial Officer
Secretary to the HD Committee (Military Medals)
35 Great Smith Street
London
SW1P 3BQ

16 October 2006

Dear Sir,

Having recently been made privy to a letter of October 5th, signed by no less than the Section Heads of three Government departments, sent to one Barry Fleming, advising him that no further response to his questions would be forthcoming, I feel I must protest in the strongest terms.

In the aforementioned letter it is claimed that the members of these departments 'provided, in a cooperative spirit, with the information requested on a wide range of subjects relating to the PJM'...Nothing could be farther from the truth!

Many veterans, myself included, disenfranchised by the unfathomable decision which consigns the PJM to the category of 'keepsake', have for months, been asking pertinent questions regarding that decision. Questions, the answers to which, we are entitled. In response, we have been systematically subjected to a policy of obdurate systemic obfuscation. We have been stonewalled, sidetracked, provided with partial and misleading information, and throughout, subjected to a persistent litany of half-truths and misinterpretation.

And now, you have the temerity, the unmitigated gall, to indicate that no further response will be forthcoming from your department(s) citing the 'disproportionate and unwarranted use of public resources' that such correspondence would involve.

Permit me to point you approximately in the direction of the real world.

Had you answered our respectful questions, fully and honestly, in the first place, then use of public resources would have been kept to a bare minimum...you are responsible for the protracted exchange of letters on the topic, not us...in addition, let me remind you that all of the veterans who have been writing to you, not having your access to 'public resources' have consistently been doing so at their own expense!

Do not delude yourselves for one minute by imagining that this new policy of silence will prove to be in any way effective. We veterans of Malaya/Borneo have no intention of quietly subsiding into disgruntled silence...far from it. This latest attempted rebuff will only stimulate further, stronger, louder and more vigorously persuasive tactics of dissent from our ever-swelling ranks.

We will NOT go away!

Sincerely,

John 'Jock' Fenton.
ex-Royal Corps of Signals & 17th Gurkha Division.


_________________
...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: A further 2 cents worth 
'Jock' Fenton wrote:
Herewith a little 'billet doux' (note fluent bilingualism!) to Mr Brennan with modified copies to his associates (or perhaps accomplices, would be more the appropriate term?)


Perfick!


_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Bullys Beef 
Certo Cito Jock, Certo Cito !!

John


_________________
Pingat Kami - Hak Kami
651 Signal Troop,
Semengo Camp,
Kuching.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post  
I have copied the letter and e. mailed it to Lord Hever (JJ Astor) Ex officer in my old regiment, The Life Guards.

It shows me the disdain and unco operative spirit, along with the unwillingness to get to the roots of this issue and provide the answers to the questions they have been sent over a long period of time.
It would seem to me that if money and time is of prime importance then they have the controls to save both. Stop fudging and spinning, while trying to write some legal waffle that they think will baffle us and the general public and be seen as the definative and final answer.

Here is what I wrote to Lord Hever, including the letter he (Barry) received and a link to them and Barry's reply..

Lord Hever. Sir.
May I please point out to you this letter ( See BELOW) sent to Mr Barry Fleming who has carried the standards for ALL of us, including yourself, in the fight to honourably and openly, with Her Majesties permission, to wear our PJM medal.

It would seem to me that this letter is very heavy handed and unwarranted, not only that, a bully tactic, that shows the mean spiritedness of those who's signatures are applied.

I hope you agree and will take steps to bring this sort of obstructional views and letters into question.
The reply from Mr Fleming can be found via the link, I provide.

I for one am very annoyed at the tone and example they are willing to offer the veterans of this country, regardless of their age or service years.

Keith Frape. Ex CoH LG.
South Carolina.


Mr Fleming's reply > http://www.fight4thepjm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=857
________
DONATO COCO



Last edited by KJF on Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post  
KJF wrote:
Here is what I wrote to Lord Hever, including the letter he received and a link to them and Barry's reply.


Well said, Keith.

I think you are speaking for all of us. Now all of us must speak up as well. I'll email Lord Astor myself.

Kev

View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: Bully's Beef 
BarryF wrote:

Read their letter:

Here is my reply:


Just read these letters. This world is going mad - stark, staring mad. Who the hell do these people think they are?

It's just as well that people like BarryF persist otherwise these men and women would continue to think they can get away with bullying and aggressive tactics against those who believe they have a legitimate case to be heard.

His reply was something else! It made me proud to be a supporter of this fight to wear the PJM.

View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Roger Spencer Writes... 
Herewith from Roger to Margaret Beckett/ Denis Brennan...posted with permission:
=================================================
Personal details removed.


10 October, 2006

Award of the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

Rt Hon Margaret M. Beckett MP
Foreign Secretary
FCO, King Charles Street
London SW1A2AH
ENGLAND

Dear Madam

I am writing to you in the hope that you will be able to allay my fears of the way in which the current government and civil servants are treating myself and all the other ex servicemen.

After a career of 24 years serving in many countries and conflicts, I am disgusted to find that I can be awarded a medal by a foreign monarch but am not able legally to wear the award on parades such as REMEMBERANCE DAY.

To add insult to injury the Veterans from other Commonwealth countries do not have this problem, because the Queen has already granted them or their governments permission to wear the same medal..

If there is any logic in this mess perhaps you could please explain it, or is it the case that the civil servants who are responsible for the honours and awards in fact dictate to you and Her Majesty.

I look forward to your reply.

Respectfully yours,

Roger Spencer


Copy to.:

Mr Denis Brennan
Ceremonial Officer
Secretary to the HD Committee( Military Medals)
35 Great Smith Street
London SW1P 3BQ


_________________
...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:
Reply to topic Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum