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John Feltham
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 764
Location: Townsville, North Queensland
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 Australian SAS soldier awarded a VC
See this newspaper report.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24920703-601,00.html
See another Aussie VC winner here....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Payne
Take note of his last medal award. You might be surprised.
_________________ Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
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Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:08 pm |
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John Feltham
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 764
Location: Townsville, North Queensland
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The Australian Parliament sat for the first time this year yesterday.
The first order of business was for the PM and Leader of the opposition to give an address on the loss of an Australian soldier KIA in an ambush in Afghanistan.
The next business was the following address:-
TROOPER MARK DONALDSON VC
Mr RUDD (Griffith—Prime Minister) (2.25 pm)—
On indulgence, to mark an occasion of national significance
in the awarding of the Victoria Cross to Trooper
Mark Donaldson VC on 16 January 2009: the Victoria
Cross is a military award unlike any other. Inscribed
across the medal are simply the words ‘For valour’, but
in those two words, this highest of Australian military
honours tells the stories of many heroes. In January of
this year, Trooper Mark Donaldson joined the ranks of
these heroes. Not only is Trooper Donaldson the first to
receive this highest military honour in 40 years but he
is also the very first to receive the Victoria Cross of
Australia, which is the national form of this historic
award that was established nearly 20 years ago. It is
awarded to those who ‘in the presence of the enemy
display the most conspicuous gallantry, a daring or preeminent
act of valour or self-sacrifice, or extreme devotion
to duty’. I can think of no better way to honour
Trooper Donaldson than by quoting from the unadorned
military prose of his citation. It refers to what
happened when the patrol, finally having extracted itself
from the ambush in Afghanistan after two hours of
fierce fighting, realised that a wounded coalition force
interpreter had been left behind. The citation says:
Of his own volition and displaying complete disregard for
his own safety, Trooper Donaldson moved alone, on foot,
across approximately 80 metres of exposed ground to recover
the wounded interpreter. His movement, once identified
by the enemy, drew intense and accurate machine gun
fire from entrenched positions. Upon reaching the wounded
coalition force interpreter, Trooper Donaldson picked him up
and carried him back to the relative safety of the vehicles,
then provided immediate first aid before returning to the
fight.
For honourable members and anyone listening to this
debate, I would draw their attention to the full rendition
of Trooper Donaldson’s citation. What I have simply
referred to the House is a small part of it. It is the
stuff of heroes; it is quite extraordinary to read. As I
said on the day, which both the Leader of the Opposition
and I attended, when the Victoria Cross was
awarded to Trooper Donaldson, when I first read of the
citation and read it, I had to read it again and again.
The courage that this bloke displayed in full engage-
ment with the enemy simply takes your breath away. It
is something of which every member of the Australian
Defence Force should be proud and every Australian
should be proud as well.
His act of valour is courage writ large. Through his
deeds, Trooper Donaldson has brought a great honour
upon himself, his family, the Australian Defence Force
and our nation. Today I ask the House to join me in
expressing our sincere admiration and deep pride in
our newest national hero—Trooper Mark Donaldson
VC—and, in doing so, we again express our gratitude
and appreciation to Trooper Donaldson’s fellow service
men and women and their families who today make
sacrifices at home and in foreign lands so that we and
our families can live safely and securely.
Honourable members—Hear, hear!
Mr TURNBULL (Wentworth—Leader of the Opposition)
(2.29 pm)—On behalf of the opposition, I
join with the Prime Minister in this motion of appreciation
and praise for Trooper Mark Donaldson, a brave
and great Australian who put his own life at enormous
risk to save the life of another. It was an extraordinary
moment of bravery on 2 September 2008, during the
conduct of a fighting patrol in southern Afghanistan.
Trooper Donaldson was part of a combined Afghan,
United States and Australian convoy that came under
an ambush by the Taliban. Their patrol was heavily
outnumbered. They were under heavy machine-gun
fire and fire from rocket propelled grenades, and for
more than two hours they were pinned down by this
assault. All the while, Trooper Donaldson provided
cover for wounded comrades. He bought time so that
his wounded comrades could be moved to safer
ground. He covered all that ground by foot, and then he
noticed that an Afghan interpreter, badly wounded, had
been left behind. Displaying a complete disregard for
his own survival and safety, Trooper Donaldson ran
across 80 metres of exposed ground to recover and
carry back the wounded interpreter. He did not flinch.
He brought the man back to the convoy, administered
first aid and kept on fighting.
Trooper Donaldson showed remarkable valour in a
land where armies have marched and battled ever since
the army of Alexander the Great fought its way through
those hard hills and rocky valleys 2½ thousand years
ago. He fought for freedom, as our soldiers are fighting
for freedom today. He was in the front line of the battle
for freedom; a battle against terrorism. It is a battle we
cannot and must not lose, and we will not lose that battle
because of brave men like Trooper Donaldson and
because of the sacrifices of brave men like Private
Sher. Another great Greek soldier, Pericles, wrote that,
‘Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who
have the courage to defend it.’ So we can take our freedoms
for granted, but we are very unwise to do so because
our freedom depends on the valour of men and
women of courage—men like Trooper Donaldson and
Greg Sher—who are prepared to pay the ultimate sacrifice.
Trooper Donaldson was there at Government House
in the company of all the top brass from the armed
forces, his family and his comrades from the SAS. But
there was another old soldier there, Keith Payne, who
nearly 40 years ago in Vietnam risked his life for others
who, like Trooper Donaldson, wear Australia’s uniform
and serve under Australia’s flag. He, too, stood up for
the freedoms that we enjoy and it is courage like his
that has made those freedoms possible. It was a beautiful
moment to see those two VCs together there at the
day of the investiture. When I spoke at the investiture, I
recalled a poem written by another soldier, Tony Blake,
who served in Vietnam in the 7th Royal Australian
Regiment. He wrote, ‘Here comes the rising sun, another
night of duty loyally done. I am awake, so others
can sleep.’ Trooper Donaldson risked his life so that
others could live. He risked his life so that all of us can
live in freedom.
The SPEAKER—Order! I believe it is appropriate
that, on behalf of honourable members, I associate the
House with the remarks of the Leader of the Opposition
and the Prime Minister on the courage and valour
of Trooper Mark Donaldson VC.
_________________ Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:34 am |
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Semengo13
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 442
Location: York
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Following in the true traditions of the Australian Forces. An example to us all.
_________________ Pingat Kami - Hak Kami
651 Signal Troop,
Semengo Camp,
Kuching.
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:45 pm |
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KenN0898
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 139
Location: Adelaide Australia
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 Re: Australian SAS soldier awarded a VC
John Feltham wrote:See this newspaper report.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24920703-601,00.html
See another Aussie VC winner here....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Payne
Take note of his last medal award. You might be surprised.
Yes John, and it was the same in New zealand when Lance Corporal Willy Apiata VC of the NZ Army won his medal in Afghanistan last year.
However reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Payne has left me puzzled, can you or anybody else explain how Keith Payne VC was able to fit 18 years service into the British army to gain the British army LSGC medal?.
Keith joined the Oz army in 1951 and apart from all his other medals he is also the holder of the Aus. Defence Forces Service medal with 2 clasps,...this medal would have required 25 years qualifying service. (15 years for the medal + 5 years for each clasp, a total of 25 years), add 18 years British army service for the LSGC equals 43 years in total. Keith Payne VC retired from the Australian army in 1975 after completing something like 24 years service, and after that he did some time with the Army of the Sultan of Oman. Generally British Army service will end when you reach 55 years of age
Whilst I have every respect for Keith as a VC winner, and I realize that because of their celebrity status VC winners will often have many other awards presented to them, this is something that I have no problem with. However because there is no mention of any British Army service in Keith's service record as is shown in wikipedia, I personally believe it would be wrong for anybody to receive a medal like the British Army Long Service & Good Conduct medal without first completing some service in the British Army.....I find this a bit of a mystery.
_________________ KenN
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:45 pm |
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John Feltham
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 764
Location: Townsville, North Queensland
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The days of anyone being awarded a second Victoria Cross are apparently over.
See this report in The Australian newspaper.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25014935-31477,00.html
_________________ Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
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Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:16 pm |
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pedro
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 39
Location: Perth Western Australia
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Interesting post Ken - certainly appears that there has been a mistake in calculations somewhere. Can this be clarified through Defence Forces records?
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:50 am |
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vinnie
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 6
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 LS&GCM for Keith Payne
A post below queries if Keith Payne served in the British Army for 18 years to be awarded his LS&GCM. Until 1975 all medals awarded to Australian service personnel were Imperial awards, that is, the same medals as British service personnel and under the same conditions, except for one notable, the Australian Service Medal awarded to Australian service personnel in WW2, but it was an Imperial award, with the King on the medal, and the NZ forces had a similar award, but it was also an imperial award. So, Australians who completed their 18 years service (18 years undetected crime) were awarded the LS&GCM . So Keith enlisted in 1951 and went to Korea, then in 1969 he was eligible for the LS&GCM, and 4 years later in 1973 he had completed the necessary time to be awarded the MSM, and that was also awarded. Then in 1975 the Australian Government (Prime Minister Gough Whitlam) decided we should have our own system of military etc awards, and the National Medal was instituted for 15 years service in the Defence Forces, (we called it "Goughs Gong" and sometimes "The Parramatta medal" cos aa reserve soldier got it for 15 years part time service) and also the police, fire service, ambulance service etc etc. naturally this caused a ruckus among defence personnel, so eventually later that year a new medal, the Defence Force Service Medal for Regular forces, and the Reserve Force Decoration (RFD) for Reserve (read Territorials) officers and the Reserve Force Medal (RFM) for Reserve other ranks, to replace the old Imperial ED and EM medals. Then came recently the Australian Defence Medal, for four years full time service or equivelant, plus all sorts of other conditions about that award, and even before that they instituted another new medal, the Defence Long Service Medal,(DLSM) then had the hide to say that people like myself, (I had almost 38 years continuous service) , could, if we wished, and back other awards and receive the DLSM, so there is likely no way that Keith Payne and I will hand back our LS&GSM, National Medal, DFSM to get that one medal that is common to both Regular and Reserve forces, and all those others no longer awarded.
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Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:59 am |
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pedro
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 39
Location: Perth Western Australia
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 Keith Payne
Excellent post Vinnie.
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Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:54 am |
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vinnie
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 6
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 LS&GCM for Keith Payne
Since my post about why Keith Payne and I are both wearing the LS&GCM for our 18 years undetected crime in the Australian army, I have looked closely at the medals Keith wears and the order in which they are worn. The only thing I can say about his order of wearing the medals is that as Malaysia is a Commonwealth country, and NOT a foreign country, then I would have thought his PJM would be placed in front of the US, South Vietnamese medals, and the medals of the middle eastern countries. I served with Keith at 11 National Service Training Battalion in 1956 then in 3 RAR with him in 1963/65 in Malaya, and I havent seen him since 1972 when I was serving in Rockhampton, but if I do bump into him some time I will ask him why he placed the PJM after his foreign awards.
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Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:12 pm |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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 Re: LS&GCM for Keith Payne
Tom,
Thanks for this information on the wearing of honours, decorations and medals by Australians.
There are two links that may also help:
http://www.defence.gov.au/army/asod/documents/ASODP05/01A.pdf
and
http://www.itsanhonour.gov.au/honours/awards/docs/order_of_wearing.rtf
I was interested to read the references to 'Foreign Awards' and the distinction made between Foreign awards generall, Imperial awards (conferred by the Queen) and awards conferred under the Royal Prerogative. One of the official explanations refers to awards:
• those within the Australian System of Honours and Awards;
• those conferred by The Sovereign in exercise of the Royal Prerogative;
• those within the Order of St John; and
• foreign awards, the acceptance and wearing of which have been authorised by the Governor-General.
- all imperial British awards made to Australian citizens after 5 October 1992 are foreign awards and should be worn accordingly.
I wonder where the PJM sits amongst those definitions.
Barry
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:45 am |
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scouserkev
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 41
Location: guess!
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 Honours with Respect
Have just read the Australian medal notes. The one thing that strikes me is the amazing dignity, generosity of spirit, and 'honour' that pervades throughout. None of the mean-spirited, buttock clenching vindictiveness shown by the incongruous application of rules that are specially created to deny ordinary Brits an honour. I quote from some of those Australian papers:
"Honours help define, encourage and reinforce national aspirations, ideals and standards by identifying role models. We give honours to recognise, celebrate and say thank you to those who make a difference, those who achieve their best and those who serve others. " (In this country it helps to be a media 'celeb', or one of the privileged classes)
"Recipients of awards are granted insignia as a visual expression of the honour conferred on them. " (Not in this country, you're not!)
It's time this country took a page out of the Australian Honours book and sorted out the self-seeking civil servants who are killing this country and bringing shame on it - and on other nations such as Malaysia.
Kev
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Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:20 pm |
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Arthur R-S
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 860
Location: Brandon, Suffolk
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 Australian VC
Having read the posts on this website, it strikes me as though the attitude of the Civil Service, with regard to the PJM, is one of, its stays in the box inside your chest of drawers. Presumably, they would like us to be positioned in a like manner.
The only box I will go in, is the one they carry me off in. Till then I shall be as abrasive and obtuse as I can reasonably be, towards that useless bunch of self serving sycophants, who masquerade as human beings.
Meanwhile, my heartfelt congratulations go to our lastest recipient of the VC. It is gratifying to be linked, however tenuously, to people who really served their country, and placed their lives on the line, as did this particular soldier.
Yours Aye
Arthur R-S
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Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:42 pm |
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mcdangle
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1027
Location: Scotland
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When I put the case of the PJM before the Scottish Peitions Committee and they were told the Australians had a different system from the UK and they asked me why, I was rebuked by a Labour member of the committee for saying 'because unlike us they have intelligent people in their government'.
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Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:11 pm |
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Arthur R-S
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 860
Location: Brandon, Suffolk
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 Honest people in the Government of Australia.
Thanks for that post McDangle. I was seriously doubting whether there were any intelligent people in any Government. Bravo to that Labour MP for kindly enlightening us. Sorry he berated you old lad. But is there a clear distinction between berating and enlightenment?
Yours Aye
Arthur R-S
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Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:23 pm |
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