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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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Re: "Bling" Medals etc.
AS365 wrote:The constant use of very thinly veiled foul language does not enamour anyone. If I can access your site and check your progress, do you not think the "enemy" can do the same? Gentlemen, at the risk of sounding incredibly patronising, you do yourselves no favours whatever if you offer such ammunition to your opponents.
Thank you for letting me post my opinion, and thank you for reading it. Good luck with the rest of your admirable campaign, and we wish you nothing but success.
Thank you for your message.
It is very difficult (is it desirable?) to fetter what people say - but I take on board all you say.
There is another problem. Men and women have been waiting several months for a response to all their work. They have been kept waiting and many find it therapeutic to 'sound off' while kicking their heels. Which is why the sort of posts you refer to have increased recently.
Steps have been taken today which I hope will encourage more positive and focused posts. The decisions involved were not easy to take. But it is done.
As for the 'enemy' loking in, that is something we actually encourage and this web site has been referred to as 'cult viewing' in the corridors of power. More importantly, it is regarded with respect and the Forum, which is only part of the web site, is een not only as an Information Exchange but also as a place where people can 'sound off' so long as they do not make personal attacks.
Anyway, the remedial action has been taken and I hope we can now look forward.
Barry
Last edited by BarryF on Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:18 pm |
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GLOman
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 668
Location: Northamptonshire
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Pingat Jasa Malaysia Citation.
Tom,
I reproduce below, The Words of the Citation that is presented with the Medal:
PINGAT JASA MALAYSIA
(PJM)
Malaya's independence on 31 August 1957 came amidst a formidable threat
to its sovereignity mounted by the Malayan Communist Party (MCP). MCP's
ferocious and extensive guerilla capaign required assistance which wasa provided by
Britain under the auspices of the Anglo Malayan Defence Agreement (AMDA)
British troops and soldiers from the Commonwealth countries of Australia, New
Zealand and Fiji maintained bases, security personnel, civilian staff as well as other
facitlities in Malaysia to safeguard its sovereignity. These troops further assisted
Malaysia during the second armed confrontation with Indonesia that ended on 12 August
1966.
In appreciation of of the meritorious acts and supreme sacrifices made by the
securoity forces and civilian staff from Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Fijiand
Nepal to Malaysia for obne decade, Tjhe Supreme Head of the Federation of Malaysia
wishes to award medals to all those who distinguished themselves in chivalry,
gallantry, and loyalty while performing their services. The Medal takes the form of an
award titled "Pingat Jassa Malaysia" (Service to Malaysia Award)
You will see from this that it is a SERVICE award and not a campaign medal or for specific
actions of courage. It does not differentiate between the classes of service personnel, or
indeed, civilians who served in Malaysia. The phrase "They also serve who only stand and wait" comes to mind!
It is awarded posthumously.
Regards,
David
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Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:24 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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To Mrs McKenzie and AS365 welcome to the forum, it is good to see diverse support coming to the fore, long may it continue.............
JohnC
_________________ --------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:29 pm |
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Tom
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 6
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MEDALS ANY SUCH MATTERS
Dear KJF, Barry, George, Admin and all Veterans,
I really am dreadfully sorry that my previous posts caused such a furore. The whole question of medals is a very thorny issue and Gallantry Awards are even more so. I alluded earlier to the period of intense combat which the RRF underwent last autumn in Helmund; did you notice any Gallantry Awards for them in the November Operational Honours List? None were given, was it because they were craphats in an Air Assault Brigade or their actions went unnoticed or perhaps they will be included next time around? Either way this omission has caused offence for the moment.
Perhaps we should adopt the Wehrmacht system and give our Generals a supply of Medals which then award instantaneously to acknowledge brave deeds? When General Tony Jeapes was CLF HQNI he proposed that we have 2 medals for every theatre of operations. Everyone would receive a medal for being in the Theatre, only those actively engaged in ground Combat would get the 2nd one. This proposal stemmed from the fact that that for example a Pay Clerk who never left the sanctuary of HQNI or a UDR Soldier who issued Blankets on a duty night received the exact same medal as the member of a COP Platoon who was dug into the South Armagh countryside for weeks on end. Unfortunately his proposal was not approved.
To conclude my comments were never intended to wind any one up, they were never meant to offend any of the honourable veterans who are members of PJM. They were meant to be thought provoking and perhaps touch the conscience of those who exaggerate their service for selfish ends.
I wish you all the best in your fight, during my many sleepless nights, I will occasionally visit your site to see how you are doing and yes Barry it is slightly therapeutic for my present ailment to occasionally join the debate. (I would commend a Book by Hugh McManners, Titled the Scars of War to those of you with an interest in the condition some of us “cheeky young" upstarts now suffer).
God Bless to you all or as they may say in the future "inshallah"
Faugh a Ballagh
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Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:31 pm |
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Bill Blyth
Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 104
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My Regt was Infantry so we were always at the front ie: Radfan (Aden) Borneo and NI. We also used to have the oppinion that it was only us doing all the work, its only after working with The Corps (R. Sigs, Ord, Eng etc) that you discover that you are only a small cog in a large wheel and would not be able to carry out duties without the good work of others wether they
heard the sound of bullets, shells or what.
So really everyone in a theatre is doing his/her job for the good of all..
PS sorry forgtot to mention RAF, RN and RFA.
Last edited by Bill Blyth on Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:59 pm |
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jimbo
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 33
Location: Warwickshire
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Tom
I can understand your comments and you are truly entitled to your opinions. But myself and i am sure members of the MNBVA thought some of your comments shown a lack of respect for veterans.
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Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:13 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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I worked for 12 years in The Port of Felixstowe, a huge container operation that involved 2000 people plus many in peripheral trades. If the Port did well this was reflected in a generous bonus at Christmas to all employees from the sharp end to the toilet cleaners, I never heard one gripe from anyone at the sharp end, I was a Senior Clerk so was at the blunt end.
Conversely in the Royal Air Force I was at the sharp end, I never served in the jungle among the leeches, snakes or swamps or CT's. But I did lose 12 of my colleagues in one Anti Piracy Patrol (similar incident to the recent Nimrod crash) and much before the time zone of the current PJM issue this happened, two died, one received a Posthumous George Cross
I also recall the Anti Riot patrols, the armed guards in the Johore Straits but then everyone had to do these, plus manoevering 500lb bombs from Collyers Quay to Seletar Pier. I also recall being the first in the NAAFI queue and the first one out of Bugis Street when there was a Redcap raid. We were all part of a team, most of us received a GSM and some received a PJM, it is the latter that I have received two medals one for my father and one for myself, I asked for no medals, one was given, two were presented at an award ceremony.
The latter two are not for me, they are for my colleagues and their colleagues who never made the return trip to Blighty, it is they whom I am honouring and I want to see justice done to those guys whether they be a member of a Rifle Brigade or a matelot patrolling some creek or other. Pingat Kami-Hak Kami ( Our Medal- Our Right)
_________________ --------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:30 pm |
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LaurieB
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Penang, Malaysia.
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Re: Keith Frape
BarryF wrote:LaurieB wrote:I am a little confused here. I thought that the eligibility period for this medal/clasp for those serving on the Malay Penisular during Confrontation was from around August 64 to June 65.
Can anyone confirm that.
Yes - on land on the peninsula the GSM finished in June 1965. Certain Naval and Air Force personnel on ops at sea and in the air around and above the coast of the peninsula remained eligible for the Malay Peninsula clasp until the end of Confrontation in 1966.
Thanks for that clarification, Barry. I am now unconfused.
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Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:06 am |
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John Feltham
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 764
Location: Townsville, North Queensland
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Re: MEDALS ANY SUCH MATTERS
Tom wrote:When General Tony Jeapes was CLF HQNI he proposed that we have 2 medals for every theatre of operations. Everyone would receive a medal for being in the Theatre, only those actively engaged in ground Combat would get the 2nd one.
That was a disgusting suggestion. It must have come from the suits in the MoD?
Amendment.....Just realised that I misread your msg. But my point is about who it is that decides who gets what medals and for what. Sorry.
It has all the fingerprints of them on it.
The same disease was present in the Australian MoD (or its equivalent).
After the Battle of Long Tan, in Vietnam, some of the diggers who fought there, were awarded.......wait for..........DOLLS.
See......
www.diggerhistory.info/pages-medals/longtan-medals.htm
And the same civil serpents appear to be still white-anting aawy.
See.....
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Minister-apologises-to-Vietnam-veterans/2006/08/15/1155407790962.html
They never learn.
_________________ Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
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Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:22 am |
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jimbo
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 33
Location: Warwickshire
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Re;Medals any such matters
John
You could be right ! it makes you wonder if these people are real,or Whitehall manderins trying to spread poison amongst the PJM campaign.
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Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:07 pm |
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Paul Alders
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 931
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I’m ex RAF apart from carrying out my normal duties I have pulled armed guard on a number of occasions both in Borneo & Singapore, in 1964/65 was always armed while on night duty, twice I was part of an armed quick response team for the Bukit Timah Radar Station (sleep with your boots on), did once during the riots was part of a armed convoy of trucks to go to an Army base to fetch compo rations as we were running out of food at Tengah, while stationed at Kuantan was trained to use a 20mm AA Gun and been covered in leaches more than once.
Did I earn my medal? I’ll let others be the judge of that.
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Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:09 pm |
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Newfie56
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 1
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CAMPAIGN AND OTHER MEDALS
Hi Digger,
I surf here occasionally when I have free time, it makes interesting reading at times. My Regiment is affiliated to a Scottish Regiment consequently we have a number of relatives of those who served in the Far East now serving in our ranks( me included). ( I am loosley affiliated to Scotch as well, certainly related through drink) That young pup Tom has certainly rattled a few Brits cages. I have looked at his comments and as you Aussies say they "seem fair dinkum" to me, in fact they spot on. We have a major problem here in Canada with people wearing medals they are not entitled to, there was a flood of applications some time ago from supposed Vets who served in some form of support role in Korea, many of these seemed to be eithe RCN or RCAF and it was very difficuld for the suits in CFHQ to verify their claims as all records of isolated dets and ships crews had long gone west. In the end they got the UN medal I think just to shut them up.
I have always believed that Long Tan, The Battle for Mirbat and of course the retake of the Falklands to be the best examples of their kind when studying such matters.
I meet the modern day 6 RAR on occasion and can say that you "Aussies" are now punching well above your weight in the present plethora of wars. I like the Bushmaster it is a serious piece of Kit. There are some Aussies near me in Afg, they are on Op Slipper as a Province Reconstruction Team, the have some beuts of Shielas with them as well. We get on well with the Brits, they are in the next province to us down south - good guys, highly motivated and thoroughly dependable. The Anzacs, Brits and ourselves should reform the old Commonwealth Division as an answer to our dwindling numbers.
If any of the members of this PJM site have any connections with the Queens Own Highlanders from Far East days, then you may know my late uncle, Jocky Shepherd(4 , he was a "character" in those days I gather.
I am R&R in the Emerald Isle at the moment - lovely place.
Good Luck with your very worthy cause and "keep the faith"
Newfie
CF
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Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:24 pm |
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valentine
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 53
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Tom
How do the bomb disposal people figure in your reckoning because they are not always up at the sharp end
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Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:21 pm |
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Richard Dean
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 19
Location: UK
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Re: CAMPAIGN AND OTHER MEDALS
Newfie56 wrote:That young pup Tom has certainly rattled a few Brits cages. I have looked at his comments and as you Aussies say they "seem fair dinkum" to me, in fact they spot on. We have a major problem here in Canada with people wearing medals they are not entitled to,
Hi Newfie,
You've hit the nail on the head there. This Fight4thePJM campaign is all about preserving the integrity of medals by trying to ensure that men and women are not encouraged to wear unauthorised medals without the Queen's approval. The Ministry of Defence and the Foreign Office have told British veterans that the wearing of medals by civilians is not policed and it's up to them if they wear the PJM. We know, however, that that is misleading and could encourage the expansion of the Bling habit, although I hasten to add that I agree with Soldier Magazine that the PJM is not Bling because the Queen has accepted it (but not, yet, for wear). There is an MOD Defence Instruction and Notice telling us that to wear an unauthorised medal would be a grave discourtesy to the Queen. Personally, I find the habit offensive.
This web site is campaigning to have the record set straight so veterans know where they are up to. At the moment it's a garbled and conflicting decision.
The message you referred to was not well informed about Foreign Decorations and the PJM (as opposed to British campaign medals) and that's what caused a minor hiccup in a usually very happy and positive environment. The medal has already been accepted, nobody's chasing a 'gong', and I reckon British veterans are doing a great job in fighting the civil servants and, what is amazing, I think they are going to win thanks in great part to the unselfish support they receive from so many countries around the world and from their two VC supporters who know a bit about Risk and Rigour.
I am amazed that with so many people involved from so many countries and so many different backgrounds, and about 10,000 messages on the forum, that there has been so few difficulties. It says much for the quality of the contributions and the integrity of the contributors. It's a fantastic web site doing a fabtastic job.
It's great to see new support and welcome to the forum.
Cheers,
Richard
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Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:46 pm |
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