London Daily Telegraph

Cheap bullets put lives of paratroopers at risk

By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent

Last Updated: 2:27am GMT 23/11/2006

The lives of paratroopers were put in danger after the Ministry of Defence sent defective ammunition to Afghanistan, it can be revealed.

The situation became so serious that a platoon from the 3Bn The Parachute Regiment refused to go out on patrol until the problem was resolved. The troops had to borrow ammunition off Canadian and American special forces as they battled to fight off Taliban attacks.

The MoD, which yesterday unveiled plans for British troops to make a quicker-than-expected withdrawal from the front line in Iraq, has been unable to explain why defective ammunition for the .50 calibre Browning heavy machinegun was sent to Afghanistan.

It is thought that the batch was from either Pakistan or the Czech Republic, where a round costs 60 US cents. The price for British, Canadian or American ammunition is $1.50. With many thousands of rounds fired, using cheaper ammunition would have saved thousands of pounds.

A shocking demonstration of the poor quality rounds is shown on a video posted by a paratrooper on the YouTube website. It shows two soldiers in a sandbagged position struggling to operate the machinegun, which can also be mounted on Land Rovers.
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One is shown constantly re-cocking the weapon as his colleague seeks to feed through the ammunition belt. At one point, the Para, who becomes exhausted with the strain of constantly pulling the cocking handle, drops the gun and swears in frustration. All the time incoming enemy fire can be heard.

The Browning has given troops in Afghanistan a boost in terms of firepower. It fires 550 rounds per minute and they can penetrate buildings and lightly-armoured vehicles.

It is thought that the defective ammunition was designed to fit the Russian-made DsHk 12.7mm heavy machinegun. The bullets are cut with less precision, leading to stoppages when fired from the Browning.

A Parachute Regiment officer involved in the fighting said: "The ammo we had was rubbish. It just kept jamming. At one point we refused to go out because it was so bad. Eventually we managed to scrounge some Canadian rounds.

"If we had not got that ammo we would certainly have lost a lot of people."

After the protest, senior technical officers tested five different batches of ammunition. They were all defective.

The Paras obtained ammunition from the Canadians and Americans and it was only when British special forces became involved that the situation was resolved. Rounds were bought from Canadian stocks in Afghanistan. "They refused to believe it was all crap until special forces got involved," the Para said. "After that we had the new stuff within a week."

An MoD spokesman said: "There are no current problems with this ammunition.".

COMMENT: Perhaps, but there are problems with the MoD.


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Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.

John Feltham wrote:

An MoD spokesman said: "There are no current problems with this ammunition.".

COMMENT: Perhaps, but there are problems with the MoD.

Too right, John. There fundamental problems at the MoD.

When will these lies from the MoD stop!

People say why do we spend all those resources and use all this time fighting for a medal.

This article illustrates just one facet of our struggle ... the intinrisic dishonesty of many in the MoD that leads to dodgy and life-threatening decisions which, when questioned, are 'explained' by way of lies and obfuscation from the Department.

They are not on the side of our serving men and women - and they are certainly not on the side of British veterans.

We shall fight them.

And we shall win - one day.

Barry
ex-Para, ex-Int Corps, and ex-Virgin Soldier (having been well and truly 'drilled' by the MoD et al)


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

This is not a new problem, those who served in the 60's and early 70's may well recall that the Army had the self same problem with 9mm ammo which originated from Pakistan. That was cheaper and defective too!

John

I have found the link on Youtube relating to the wrong ammunition issue reported in the UK press.

Go to www.youtube.com and in the search box type 3 Para Helmand Province Afghanistan part 2.

There is also a link once this clip appears called pat2415. If you click on this there are several more clips from Afghanistan.

Disturbing viewing after the MOD's denials of anything wrong over there.

There was a programme on UK TV recently regarding the TA boys coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq being dumped at Birminghams A&E Selly Oak Hospital, in a similar vein SAGA in its December issue is running a two pager on something very similar.

It disgusts me to think that our pollies can send these guys and gals off to war without the proper care and attention that they and their families need when they return. It is a pity that some of the top ranking Generals, Admirals and Air Chief Marshals cannot form a delegation and look after THEIR own kind by representing them on a Select Committee made up of MPs and Top Brass

Where is Ma'am in this too, she is the C-in-C of all of them let her support their courage, because they supported her and all of us. Would not it be great to hear some good news regarding support for all of our colleagues young and not so young...........


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There was a TV programme the other night about our injured troops being brought back to a civilian hospital (Selby Oak) and those still serving stated that their treatment was first class but others who had since left the army told a different story. One young chap, who is now a plasterer, was badly burned and wounded when his tank was blown up and two in it killed. He had to have a lot of skin grafts and said he had to pay £60 a time for certain skin grafts out of his own pocket as the MOD refused to pay for them.
This is incredulous! How can our armed forces be treated in such an shameful manner. Large numbers of TA personnel are resigning because of the treatment and our forces are very thin on the ground.
It is time that someone at the top, and I mean the very top ie. Queenie, starts to realise just what is going on in our country and by whom. Blair can give £500 mil to Pakistan, another £100 mil on top of the £400 mil already given to Iraq and Two Shags can sit in his office costing the taxpayer over £2 mil a year. Scotland gave £5 mil to Malawi and we continue to pay through the nose to the EU.
Time for a change Your Majesty. The Armed Forces should be run by the armed forces and all these Civil Serpents and Politicians should be removed from any control of our brave boys and girls. Time someone realised the seriousness of this situation as there is the scent of dissent in the air.

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Last edited by ro5=6372 on Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total

Pete

I would love to see you interviewing AARTONE instead of Jeremy Paxman, I think you might make a better job of it to boot, did you go to the same school as R4 John Humphries now there is a guy who doesn't mince his words, like yourself

If I had B Liar in front of me I would ask him one question WHY? I would keep asking it until the 60 minutes was up. If he asked WHY? I would keep replying WHY?

He honestly think he is doing a grand job, look how he asks questions at PMQs each Wednesday instead of answering those posed to him. The exit strategy that Ms Beckett announced for the lads yesterday was an exit strategy for B Liar, all we want now is an exit strategy from the suits regarding the PJM.

January 31st 2006 WHY?


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Last edited by ro5=6372 on Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total

But still the public vote for his party?

Why?

John

The Queen would have been better employed by visiting out lads and lasses in Selly Oak Hospital Birmingham than attending the"Opening of Parliament"the other day.What a waste of time that was.Come to think of it have any members of the government visited our wounded?

Rgds Ray

theoldgit2003 wrote:

The Queen would have been better employed by visiting out lads and lasses in Selly Oak Hospital Birmingham than attending the"Opening of Parliament"the other day.What a waste of time that was.Come to think of it have any members of the government visited our wounded?

Rgds Ray

The Secretary for Defence, Des Browne is really very busy he was, the other day, at Kilmarnock Sheriff Court, Scotland, taking part in a mock trial to show schoolkids how the court system works and he was the accused but was found not guilty of an alleged assault charge. Pity they didn't put a proper charge against him like endangering our troops at war through MOD incompetence. You couldn't make it up!

jireland wrote:

But still the public vote for his party?

Why?

John

Apathy and lack of an opposition. Your Boy David just isn't making the right inroads at a time when the opportunities are presenting themselves to him and crying out for comment and action. Perhaps you should tell him to visit our site where I am sure he would get the idea, especially from folk like Pete the bugler. He will have to do better. Sorry, we are non-political on this site. Get Pete's black pen out Barry!

I replied to Paul privately but I said to him what I will say to you, I could not agree with you more! I can't stand Cameroon. There, honesty personified Jeffrey Archer take note!!!

John

When Cromwell gets upon his trusty steed watch out, that Cromwell might well be Nigel Farage if everyone wants to put the UK right again. Tory all my life but not for the past 4 years, Cameron is too PC, will the last one of the HD Committee that leaves the room please turn off the 'Kin (Petes favourite ) lights

http://www.ukip.org/ukip_news/gen12.php?t=1&id=2753


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