Does this mean we can do as the Monarch decrees and not what a 'suited men' think we should do :- >>>

http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=6491178

Are we any closer to winning the battle, and the Right to wear the PJM ?

Phredd

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Last edited by MB on Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mike Barton

LONG STANDING RULES???????????

In 2005 the HD Committee recognise an event which took place in 1954......Then quote 'Long Standing Rules to stop the wearing of the PJM. What happened to the 5 year Rule in this case?

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Last edited by StanW on Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total

Quote:

and but for the fact of you double-medallers we 60-62's veterans would be in exactly the same position as or as near as damn it to those above for Suez. So you see fred, it's 'YOU' who's stopping me getting official permision to wear my PJM!

Stan, I share your anger, but you are incorrect to say it is I who is stopping you from getting your right to wear your PJM. I completed my 3 year Far East service in July 1964, one month before the qualifying date for the GSM62, so I am in the same boat as yourself.

With reference previous posts on the subject of medals, it is important to compare like with like ... apples with apples and 'pairs' with pairs (or 'doubles' with doubles, if you like!).

For example, the PJM is a Foreign Commemorative Decoration - as opposed to the Suez medal which is a British Campaign Medal. They fall under quite separate rules. They have one thing in common, though ... they are both in respect of events more than 5 years ago.

Some of those who campaigned for the Suez medal have told me that the MoD deliberately hid vital information about whether the medal had been considered at the time, and only 'came clean' at the sub-committee when blank memos were unearthed at, I think, the Medals Office.

The 5-year rule in relation to a British Campaign Medal is important. If the medal was considered at the time by the commanders on the ground and refused, then it would be inappropriate for present incumbents or the present HD Committee to overrule that earlier decision.

But that should not apply to a Foreign Commemorative Medal – you don’t hand out commemorative medals the day after the event. Ask an HD Committee member, e.g. Sir Robin Janvrin, he’ll have to agree because he has just awarded himself one 25 years after the event, as have others who have awarded them to their secretaries to wear as well!

The correct comparisons are the Malta 50th Anniversary Medal, awarded Unrestricted Approval to be worn 50 years after the event … and to receive this medal you had to have the British Africa Star, thus it was an enforced double medal as well, breaking all the rules.

Then there is the Russian 40th Anniversary Medal, awarded Unrestricted Approval to be worn 50 years after the event … and to receive this medal you had to have a British Medal, thus it was another enforced double medal.

I have over 40 similar contradictions in terms of medals being worn in respect of events more than 5 years ago, or double medals, or both.

Barry

PS We can also disregard that last statement in the Suez notification – it is not possible to set precedents in this way.


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

Redcapfred wrote:

Quote:

and but for the fact of you double-medallers we 60-62's veterans would be in exactly the same position as or as near as damn it to those above for Suez. So you see fred, it's 'YOU' who's stopping me getting official permision to wear my PJM!

Stan, I share your anger, but you are incorrect to say it is I who is stopping you from getting your right to wear your PJM. I completed my 3 year Far East service in July 1964, one month before the qualifying date for the GSM62, so I am in the same boat as yourself.

Fred, Stan,

We have maintained all along that the majority of those eligible for the PJM do not have a British Medal. For them to employ that discredited 'rule' shows the lengths they will go to deny oirdinary men and women an acknowedgement of their service - inlcuding men and women conscripts who had to give up a couple of years of their lives and have nothing to show for it.

Did you know that the Double Medal 'Rule' first saw the light of day in Foreign Decorations Rules in November 2005? A year after the medal was first announced and one week before the HD Committee considered the PJM (the Committee did not even bother to meet to consider our case). It was then applied retrospectively. So those without a British medal probably have a case under Human Rights ... they would do if this were 'law' as opposed to 'rules we just thought up'. Retrospective legislation is usually contrary to your Human Rights. Ask the PM. When Chancellor, he had to withdraw some tax law proposals because of their retrospective provisions.[/b]


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

Yes Stan, it certainly is. The man was my father, and as far as I know he represented the RAF in the National Rifle Associating competitions held annually at Bisley - I believe that's in Surrey somewhere. He was a general duties man, and in fact a drill instructor at RAF West Kirby at one time. Sadly our family split up and I have only just discovered that he died in 1986! Bit of a shock. I am doing some research and intend to claim his medals if they are available.

Tony


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Veni vidi vinci

Redcapfred wrote:

Yes Stan, I did find that amusing....Just shows how far some will go for a few 'nuts' ! Quote: "it should be remembered that many NS men fought in the Korean war and were awarded 2 medals for that service."...Yes, more 'double-medalling' !
Quote: "The PJM is an official medal which has been recognised and Redcapfred you are wrong in saying otherwise. Perhaps, Redcapfred, I misread what you were actually saying and if so I apologise."....Indeed, you did misunderstand what I had said, the point I was making was just what you say, it is NOT a 'Mickey Mouse' medal, and for that reason we should not cease in putting on the pressure until the PJM has the FULL recognition it justly deserves.

Point taken but it did seem to read the other way, and I concur with your comments about keeping the pressure up which many are doing regularly.

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Last edited by StanW on Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:49 am; edited 1 time in total

Redcapfred wrote:

You leave me confused Owen...You were still serving for the Jubilee medals?

Not in the Army Fred, but it wasn't just the Armed services who qualified.

Owen

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Last edited by StanW on Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:48 am; edited 1 time in total

Sorry to be a tad off subject, but it is at least about medals!

Can anyone out there help me to identify how many medals are shown on the gentleman on the left on this photograph. He died in 1986, and the medals are all 1939 - 45 vintage. Thanks for any help.

Tony





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Veni vidi vinci

You leave me confused Owen...You were still serving for the Jubilee medals?