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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) Amendment to the Armed Forces Bill - It Affects Us!
Lord 'The Don' Touhig has done it again. He has tabled an amendment in the Lords to the Armed Forces Bill. If it is adopted, ex-servicemen and women will be one pace to the right of the boots of the HD Committee - and one pace nearer a forum that might just give us a fair hearing. Read this - and enjoy!
http://www.fight4thepjm.org/documents/Amendment_to_Armed_Forces_Bill.pdf
I think PJMers should be proud of what they ahve achieved. This amendment might be too late for us, who knows, but it will not be too late for those who follow us and their interests have been at the forefront of our minds as much as our own interests.
Barry
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:19 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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Brilliant, many thanks to Lord Touhig and his many supporters
_________________ --------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:25 pm |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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John Cooper wrote:Brilliant, many thanks to Lord Touhig and his many supporters ![Very Happy](images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)
Couldn't agree more, John.
And congratulations and thanks to all those who have lobbied and lobbied and lobbied over the last 6 (yes, six) or so. And thanks to Paul Alders, the first to spot the report that we had been awaiting so eagerly.
Barry
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Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:48 pm |
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GLOman
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 668
Location: Northamptonshire
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) Lord Touhig
Perhaps when, rather than if, it is enacted, they will take a leaf out of the Cabinet Ceremonial Officer's book, and those in DS Sec and others, and like their 2005/6 review and statement in the House, the amendment will take effect retrospectively, say from 2000, a nice, neat, round figure! This will include a number of other more recent medals awarded to serviing personnel and veterans with the caveat not to be worn, as well as the PJM.
359B (2) (c). "Among those chosen by the S of S as having the interests of Service Personnel" (as defined). I believe that none of those who were associated with MOD DS Sec within the last six years of the F4Campaign, should be chosen; they have consistently supported the advisers in their recommendations to the HDC (same blokes) in their opposition to the PJM'ers and others in a similar situation.
D^
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Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:02 pm |
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John Feltham
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 764
Location: Townsville, North Queensland
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I particularly like 7c.
_________________ Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
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Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:56 am |
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Paul Alders
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 931
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This amendment is excellent news it means accountability but it is only an amendment it has to be passed by the House of Commons, so lobby your MP to support it.
This amendment will not go down well in certain quarters of Whitehall so they will fight hard to stop it.
We will have to fight harder.
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Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:47 am |
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whalley
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 98
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Marvellous IF it's passed ,still it's a step in the right direction.May I add my thanks for the hard work put in by the F4 team .
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Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:25 am |
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MB
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 807
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The "Don" has shown himself to be flexible in his ability to see right from wrong and proved himself to be a truly honourable man in his ongoing support of our cause.
As an original PJMer from 1957 I thank him from the bottom of my heart for his latest attempt to bring clarity out of the Fog of Whitehall and see an end to damned lies and obfuscation put about by 'suits' with shiny backsides, dull minds and things to hide from public scrutiny.
_________________ Mike Barton
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Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:40 pm |
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Paul Alders
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 931
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) Lord Craig
Lord Craig has tabled an amendment to the Armed Forces Bill.
But what ever happens to these amendments always remember that the vast majority of us have permission to wear by virtue of London Gazette 5057.
"Insert the following new Clause-
"Commonwealth medals
After section 339 of AFA 2006 insert-
"Commonwealth medals
Medals awarded by commonwealth governments to present or former members of Her Majesty's armed forces may be worn without restriction."""
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Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:41 am |
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Semengo13
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 442
Location: York
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Tremendous support from Lord Touhig and Lord Craig.
_________________ Pingat Kami - Hak Kami
651 Signal Troop,
Semengo Camp,
Kuching.
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Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:42 am |
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hamishw
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 268
Location: Melbourne
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) [b]House of Lords Amendments re PJM[/b]
The following link details the debate in the House of Lords concerning the PJM and other medal issues. We had tremendous support from the majority of the Lords including Lords Touhig, Dannat, Craig and Ramsbotham. Nevertheless the Government through Lord De Mauley upheld the status quo on the medal issue. Some of the Lords that support us have advised that they have the opportunity in our next stage of the Bill – the Report stage – to table amendments. and if we wish to divide the House.
I hope the House is forced to vote on the issue since I feel that the majority of members do not support the stance of the HD Committee. It will be interesting to see if the Government whip is used by the Conservatives to uphold existing medal rules.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201011/ldhansrd/text/110908-gc0001.htm
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Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:58 am |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) Re: [b]House of Lords Amendments re PJM[/b]
hamishw wrote:
I hope the House is forced to vote on the issue since I feel that the majority of members do not support the stance of the HD Committee. It will be interesting to see if the Government whip is used by the Conservatives to uphold existing medal rules.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201011/ldhansrd/text/110908-gc0001.htm
So do I, Hamish.
Lord de Mauley was in the HoL because Lord Lord Astor, the Defence Minister in the HoL, had done a runner - presumably because he didn't want to be seen to trash PJMers and the men he led in Malaysia, and the King and People of Malaysia. Here we see this privileged individual working as a self-confessed lacky of the civil servants who hold PJMers in contempt (see his letter here http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2011-09-05a.16.3&s=Pingat+Jasa+Malaysia+PJM+Medal#g16.5.
So Lord Astor has turned his back on his men, on PJMers, on Malaysia ... and on the Military Covenant, as has Lord de Mauley. Not to mention their party's solemn commitment to PJMers.
We can only be grateful (Brengun told us we should be!) that there are some peers who do support ex-servicemen and women - peers such as those Hamish mentions. And there are many others. Happily Lords de Mauley and Astor are 'exceptions'!
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:56 am |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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A lot of you guys will not be aware of the lobbying that Hamish has put into this debate [strictly] behind the scenes and he is to be applauded for his unstinting support as too those Lords who have supported us too
It only takes one spoilsport...............I wrote to his Lordship
Dear Lord de Mauley
I see the Civil Servants have bent your ear as to what you needed to say on the PJM issue [House of Lords Amendment], pity that you didn't do your own homework to avoid making an enemy of 35000 potential Conservative voters
John Cooper
Suffolk
_________________ --------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:41 am |
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Semengo13
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 442
Location: York
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The Don does it again !!
"My Lords, I support the amendment of the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig. The issue of the Pingat Jasa Malaysia medal is a stain on the honour of Great Britain. This is no way to treat our veterans. They are told that they can accept a medal awarded by His Majesty the King of Malaysia but that they must not wear it. The decision was based on advice to Her Majesty the Queen from the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals. I have been involved in this matter, with other noble Lords and noble and gallant Lords, over the years. We were told that one reason why the HD Committee reached its conclusion was the double-medalling and five-year rule. However, the double-medalling and five-year rule was set aside in order that the men could accept a medal and then reimposed to prevent them wearing it. This is appalling. To add further shame, the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals then advised that they should wear it for one week when they were invited to return to Malaysia for the celebration of its 50th anniversary of independence. What an appalling way to treat our veterans.
Mention has been made of the way in which some veterans had communications from various departments and civil servants. I have a letter from a veteran who said that he was advised by a civil servant that he could stuff his PJM back into his Kellogg's packet because the medal's status meant nothing. What a way to talk to somebody who fought for our Armed Forces in the jungles of Malaysia but not in the jungles of Whitehall. I have sought, through freedom of information legislation, more information on how the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals reached its decision. Members often do not meet; they communicate and reach their decisions by e-mail. It is a good thing that we did not have e-mails in 1957 at the start of the Malaysian campaign, or some of the boys we wanted to send might have said, "I'm not going but I'll send an e-mail of support". This is an appalling way to treat our veterans.
In a few weeks, on November 11, we will remember those who gave their lives for Britain. There could be no better time to take stock and say, "We've got this wrong, we need to review this and ensure that these boys are able to wear a medal that they richly deserve". I know that the noble Lord the Minister feels this in his heart. I echo the comments made by the noble Lord: set aside the advice given by civil servants and anybody else. The right thing to do is to let our boys wear a medal. Let us-as a Government, as a Parliament and as a country-honour them in the way that they deserve".
Thanks to Lords Touhig, Ramsbottom, Palmer of Childs Hill, Craig of Radley and Viscount Slim for their support.
Lords Amendment Debate is on this link :-
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2011-10-04a.1023.3&s=pingat+jasa+malaysia#g1072.0
Roll up the page to 6pm starting at Lord Craig of Radley for the full PJM debate. I love his comment "Once again, we have confusion and conflicting answers to the same Question. No contortionist could so ridiculously point in so many different ways at the same time".............. We have been saying that for years.
[/b]
Last edited by Semengo13 on Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
_________________ Pingat Kami - Hak Kami
651 Signal Troop,
Semengo Camp,
Kuching.
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Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:12 pm |
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MB
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 807
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) The Don does it again.
Thank goodness the Don keeps on "doing it" for us. I held back on this post thinking that others would need to have their say before me... but I guess the years have taken their toll and fresh news is infrequent.
I thank the "Don" with all my heart and am sure that he is about to give us the "Day" we have been fighting 4 for so long.
_________________ Mike Barton
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Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:53 pm |
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