Just so that there is a record of this here:

Fri, 22 Sep 2006 07:42:17 +0100 (BST)
From: "JOHN COOPER"
Subject: Pingat Jasa Malaysia
To: ceremonial@cabinet-office.x.gsi.gov.uk


Dear Mr Brennan or Ms Pengelly

I am asking two simple questions of you, if you cannot answer this please pass on to someone that can.

1> Did Her Majesty The Queen, actually sign a document herself, barring ex Service Personnel from wearing The Pingat Jasa Malaysia

if so

2> When was this document signed, ie date, and where would this document be located

cc Sir Michael Lord MP Central Suffolk

Yours sincerely

John Cooper
Name and address supplied


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I sent this off on August 17th:-

Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:32:48 +0100 (BST)
From: "JOHN COOPER"
Subject: FAO Neena Thandasseri
To: ceremonial@cabinet-office.x.gsi.gov.uk
ceremonial@cabinet-office.x.gsi.gov.uk

FAO Neena Thandasseri
Policy Officer
Ceremonial Secretariat
Cabinet Office
SW1P 3BQ

Dear Neena

Thank you for your letter of 16th August in reply to my two emails to Mr Denis Brennan of 6th and 14th August 2006 re an appeal on an unjust decision by The HD Committee to advise Her Majesty to accept the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal but for those 35000 recipients not to be able to OFFICIALLY wear the medal.

Would the Cabinet Office explain under which section of the Royal Prerogative does the non wearing of the PJM medal come under and further I cannot seem to find this statement by Mr Ian Pearson on the award announcement of 31st January 2006? Did The Queen use this Royal Prerogative to disallow Her own British Subjects wearing The PJM against those of our Commonwealth Cousins in Australia and New Zealand. Once you find these dates would you kindly copy these to me.

Although there appears to be different signals coming out of different departments of The FCO/Cabinet Office/MoD, the latter of course having no truck with the PJM but do seem to want to join in unofficially, why I wonder have comments such as 'the wearing of medal by civilians is not policed' come from, now that is one statement you are all in step with, but once again was not mentioned by Ian Pearson on 31st January 2006.

So my question to you Neena is 'are the rules being made up as you go along' as I have no redress on 'The Queens Prerogative', I cannot appeal, I have no statutory rights. I have further been quoted in the past on The Five Year Rule and Double Medalling Rule which do not aparently exist. The latter two is being asked officially of you by Sir Michael Lord MP, The Deputy Speaker of The House of Commons who is also my MP for Central Suffolk.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to give me your expert opinions on the above, failing which of course you may pass this back to Mr Brennan for his reasoning.

Again thank you for your response and time

Yours sincerely

John Cooper


In reply to above

Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:01:08 +0100 (BST)
From: "JOHN COOPER"
Subject: Re: FAO Neena Thandasseri
To: "JOHN COOPER" Dear Neena

Thank you for your letter of the 19th September in response to my email shown below.

What is it Neena that you do not understand about my email below? You have not answered one of my questions or, in my opinion given a satisfactory answer, your letter does not address anything I have mentioned below. Could you therefore do so, if you can't can you pass it on to someone that can answer it.

The Departments within Whitehall such as yours just give so much spiel about nothing that I can see why you are all overworked, your last sentence to me in your latest letter epitomises the wanton waste of gobbledegook emanating from someone who clearly does not understand the problem.

The HD Committee made the decision on the non right to wear, if they had made the correct decision in the first place, you would not receive 'a large amount of correspondence on peripheral issues'.

I wish my letter of the 17th August 2006 to be dissected and to be answered fully, it would appear to me you are but a cog in an ever increasing Jurassic Monster of an organisation.

Yours sincerely

John Cooper








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John, this is old news and could confuse people plus the dates are wrong. I read it out to Barry after sending it to all and sundry and he immediately put the brakes on.

Can you or anyone else out there confirm the current state of play with regard to the motion to the Scottish Parliament.

Regards

John

jireland wrote:

John, this is old news and could confuse people plus the dates are wrong. I read it out to Barry after sending it to all and sundry and he immediately put the brakes on.

Can you or anyone else out there confirm the current state of play with regard to the motion to the Scottish Parliament.

Regards

John

As George has shown the Scottish Parliament Petitions Committee is hearing our Petition on 15th. November, 2006. They will advise if they want the Petitioner to appear and if so he/she can be accompanied by two others. If we are called Barry wants to appear so there is room for one other if anyone wants to attend. If they do not call the Petitioner to attend there is no reason why anyone cannot be seated in the public area. I will advise if we receive notice to attend.

Andy/McDangle has asked me to post this on Andys behalf (Still having download problems)

The letter is identical to the one I received on Friday from the same source but with a different opening paragraph and a DIFFERENT SIGNATURE!







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One letter in from The High Commissioner in Kuala Lumpur and my reply

From the High Commissioner
W B McCleary CVO


Mr John Cooper


By E-Mail:





Dear Mr Cooper


Thank you for your e-mail letter of 15 September 2006. You will be aware, from your previous correspondence with, amongst others, Chris Edge in the FCO, of the current situation with regard to the PJM.

The important role played by British ex-servicemen and others during the Emergency and Confrontation is fully recognised. Hence the exception to the Rules, to recognise the generous gesture from the Malaysian authorities, and to allow for the PJM to be presented and accepted.

As you know, the Rebuttal Statement is currently being considered, and a response will be sent in due course. Your comments will be taken into account during the consideration process.

Yours sincerely Boyd McCleary


Boyd McCleary

and here is my reply

The High Commissioner
Mr Boyd McCleary CVO
Kuala Lumpur

Dear Mr McCleary

Thank you for your undated letter forwarded by The FCO in London.

You quote:

The important role played by British ex-servicemen and others during the Emergency and Confrontation is fully recognised.

That, Mr McCleary, is a crass statement to make and deceitful, together with Mr P Moody The DHC you have done more to harm Veterans Pride Worldwide than you can ever imagine.

We are ageing recipients of a Foreign Award given to US by a grateful King and People of Malaysia. HMG's involvement should be NIL, you are living under 'rules' made up without any authority whatsoever, but there again you have eight HD Committee Members that are answerable to no one but themselves.

I feel embarrassed and ashamed to be a 'British War Veteran and Pensioner' due to HMG's actions. Quite frankly you have all 'lost the plot', you should all hang your heads in shame.

Pingat Kami-Hak Kami

John Cooper
Ipswich
England


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I got a belated reply to my letter to the Embassy which I copy here but I am slightly confused by it as I never wrote to Chris Edge, obviously they are getting confused with their 'standard' reply letter formats. At least I got a reply though more than can be said of that erstwhile Cabinet Minister Margaret Beckett who has until Friday to get one to me or I go to the Parliamentary Ombudsman.

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Well I wonder who is telling Porky Pies, Mr Moody or The Malaysian Star

I know where my odds are being laid at whose feet!


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Here is my reply copied to Michaels office sent immediately
John

Dear Mr. McCleary, thank you for your letter which I received by e-mail this morning I am pleased that you at least have had the courtesy to reply which I fear your Foreign Secretary, Mrs. Beckett has not.

I am slightly confused however as I have never written to Mr. Edge only once having copied him an e-mail sent to Richard Coney which has also never been replied to. In that I asked specific questions and those have been rudely ignored by this failure to answer them. I am also slightly annoyed that your reply is identical to that received by a Mr. John Cooper with only the salutation being different, I take it from that, a common reply format has been authorised by your masters at the Foreign Office.

Having served 27 years in Her Majesty's Armed Forces then 10 years as a member of the Civil Police Service before going into public office as well as my commitment to the Royal British Legion, I am afraid that my loyalty to this country has been and is being sorely tested by the disgraceful way in which the Veterans of the Malaysia/Borneo campaigns are being treated by this Government. The way in which this award is being denigrated is an insult not only to the Malaysian people, but to each and every member of the Armed Forces past and present. I have taken this issue up with my Member of Parliament, The Right Hon. Michael Ancram QC; who is taking this case up with the Foreign Secretary and who is, I might add, supportive of the view that it is a gross injustice and is discriminatory towards UK Veterans.

Sincerely,


Councillor John R. Ireland
Member for Lickhill Ward, Calne.
N.W.D.C.
01249 811910
www.lickhillconservatives.org.uk

Attached

Now that would be good

Jon

784 AWARD OF PINGAT JASA MALAYSIA MEDAL 24:2:05
Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson
Mr Gregory Campbell
Mr Nigel Dodds
The Reverend Martin Smyth
David Burnside
Andrew Mackinlay
* 6
That this House notes the announcement by the Malaysian Government that it wishes to award the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal to all Commonwealth ex-service personnel who served in either the Emergency or the Confrontation in that country between 1957 and 1966; recalls that a number of British Army regiments, including the Royal Ulster Rifles, served in Borneo during that period together with other elements of the United Kingdom Armed Forces; further notes the decision of the Australian Government to accept the award of this medal for its ex-service personnel; and calls on Her Majesty's Government to enter into discussions with the Malaysian Government to ensure that those British ex-service personnel who qualify for the award of the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal should receive this just recognition of their valiant service to the Crown and the people of Malaysia.


24th February 2005, this looks to be the EARLIEST REFERENCE in Parliament


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John Cooper wrote:

784 AWARD OF PINGAT JASA MALAYSIA MEDAL 24:2:05
Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson
Mr Gregory Campbell
Mr Nigel Dodds
The Reverend Martin Smyth
David Burnside
Andrew Mackinlay
* 6
That this House notes the announcement by the Malaysian Government that it wishes to award the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal to all Commonwealth ex-service personnel who served in either the Emergency or the Confrontation in that country between 1957 and 1966; recalls that a number of British Army regiments, including the Royal Ulster Rifles, served in Borneo during that period together with other elements of the United Kingdom Armed Forces; further notes the decision of the Australian Government to accept the award of this medal for its ex-service personnel; and calls on Her Majesty's Government to enter into discussions with the Malaysian Government to ensure that those British ex-service personnel who qualify for the award of the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal should receive this just recognition of their valiant service to the Crown and the people of Malaysia.


24th February 2005, this looks to be the EARLIEST REFERENCE in Parliament

Good Point, John. We now have a definite date and it looks like Edgey Chris has been on the porky pies again. Is there no lie or no deceipt that they wouldn't use just to prevent elderly British Citizens from wearing an honourable medal they fought for and earned. I can still remember, after fifty years, the de-leeching at the end of a day's patrol in the jungle and my skin crawls when I think about these slimy black creatures sticking to your skin and bloated with your blood, yuk!!!

George F wrote:

[Notice the Queens secretary apparently thinks John Reid is still Defence secretary. I thought he moved to the Home office two months ago.



George F

What an absolute shambles this country is in today and here is Sonia as The Secretary to The Queen, God help the rest of us! So you can imagine what 8 HD Committee members advised her



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NOTE THE DATE

further to reference 24 FEB.2005 in the House of Commons. One of the original signatories Andrew Mackinlay is my M.P.
I have recently written to him asking him to revisit our problem,having sounded him out over a pint in the local RAFA Club.
I will report his reply in due course.

MIKE OSTLER
Another RAF from Borneo/Sarawak



Last edited by ostler1 on Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

ostler1 wrote:

NOTE THE DATE]

further to reference 24 FEB.2005 in the House of Commons. One of the original signatories Andrew Mackinlay is my M.P.
I have recently written to him asking him to revisit our problem,having sounded him out over a pint in the local RAFA Club.
I will report his reply in due course.

MIKE OSTLER
Another RAF from Borneo/Sarawak

Welcome to the forum Mike and thanks for getting in touch with your MP

John


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