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Ten Minute Rule Bill
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Post Ten Minute Rule Bill 
This Wednesday 21st May Don Touhig MP will be outlining his 10 Minute Rule Bill in Parliament. This is to take place immediately after Prime Ministers Questions [PMQs] which ceases at 1230hrs.

The timetable is taken from The Parliament Web Page [Crown Copyright]

Wednesday 21 May

The House will sit in Westminster Hall between 9.30am-5.00pm

Westminster Hall Private Members' Debates -

09.30-11.00 Industrial relations within the Maritime and Coastguard Agency - Mr Alistair Carmichael
11.00-11.30 Minehead Driving Test Centre - Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger
14.30-16.00 Liver Disease - Mr Bob Laxton
16.00-16.30 Impact of National Air Traffic Services' proposals for Luton - Margaret Moran
16.30-17.00 Extension of the railways network - Dr John Pugh

The House will sit at 11.30am

Oral Questions - Wales; Prime Minister
Ten Minute Rule Bill - Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals - Mr Don Touhig
Legislation - Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Bill [HL] - Second reading
Adjournment - Mr Sam Walton and the Rural Payments Agency - Mr Graham Stuart


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You can watch the House of Commons live on digital TV.
So tune in at 12:30 Hrs on Wed 21st May.

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Thanks for that info.Paul.Will watch with interest.

Rgds Ray

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Post All MPs notified about tomorrow 
I have emailed/contacted all MPs about tomorrow's 10 Minute Rule Bill and have already received some encouraging replies that I'll post here later. My message was simple:

Re: Will you give just 10 more minutes of your time to support British Ex-Servicemen? 10 Minute Rule Bill, 21st May 2008

Will you help us just one more time? Will you give just 10 more minutes of your time to support British Ex-servicemen and women?

After Prime Minister’s Questions tomorrow, Wednesday 21st May, please stay in the Commons for just 10 minutes to support Mr Don Touhig’s 10 Minute Rule Bill on the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals. He is seeking to make this Committee, that does not have a lay presence unlike other key Honours decision-makers and makes bizarre and inconsistent rulings that unjustly affect ordinary men and women, more accountable to Parliament whose views they have refused to consider.

The HD Committee insists on preventing British veterans from wearing their Pingat Jasa Malaysia, earned the hard way while protecting the newly independent Malaysia – but the rest of the Commonwealth can wear the medal. British ex-servicemen, civilians, many were conscripts, can receive the medal but have been told not to wear it! Bizarre by any standards! Undemocratic by all standards! And a snub to those who served, to the families of those who died, and to Malaysia.

The buck does not stop with the HD Committee – it stops with you, our elected representative.

Please demonstrate that democracy still exists in this beleaguered country of ours – give just 10 minutes and support the Bill and let British veterans and the families of those who died know that Parliament (who asked them to put their lives on the line – not an unaccountable secretive Committee) will not let them down.

Thank you.

Barry Fleming

Fighting for the right to wear the PJM at
http://www.fight4thepjm.org
Emailto barry@fight4thepjm.org
"Pingat Kami - Hak Kami"


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Not wishing to be 'left behind' I too have exercised the list of all Westminster MP's as follows:

Dear MP,

It is my sincere hope that you will not discount the following request on the basis that, being Canadian, I can have no interest or involvement in UK political matters....nothing could be farther from the truth.....I am a veteran of the Malayan 'Emergency' and a vocal proponent of the right (currently denied!) of British veterans to wear the medal graciously presented to them by a grateful Malaysian nation.

My request is simple....would you, if your busy schedule will permit remain in the House for tomorrows '10 minute debate' requested by Don Touhig on the topic of the Grant of Honours Decorations and Medals Committee and their anomalous decision to permit British veterans to accept, but not wear, the Pingat Jasa Malaysia.

This decision has affected, not only UK resident veterans and their relatives but thousands of others, resident abroad....the Organization, which I represent, boasts membership and support in 30 countries on 5 Continents.....many of whom will be eagerly watching developments in Westminster via the Internet.

Thank you for taking the time to read this submission...your support would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

'Jock' Fenton
Ex Royal Corps of Signals & 17th Gurkha Division.
http://www.fight4thepjm.org/

328 Hillcroft St
Oshawa, Ontario
Canada L1G 2L9


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Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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And my contribution - as far as the alphabet goes. - I got to the end of the 'N's before Gmail stopped all my outgoing mail.

Thanks for your msg John, I just pinched yours and "massaged" it a little.



Last year the Prime Minister stood up in Parliament after PMQs in response to a question from Don Touhig MP [Lab Islywyn] where Mr Touhig asked him to look into the non wearing of the Pingat Jasa Malaysia. He, the PM, promised to the House that he would do this.

So far he still hasn't done it.

Immediately after PMQs tomorrow, Don Touhig MP, is presenting a 10 minute rule bill on the working of The Grant of Honours and Decorations Committee which is preventing 35000 Malaysian War Veterans from wearing the Pingat Jasa Malaysia, awarded to them at no cost to this country, by a grateful Muslim country.

Please spend 10 minutes listening to what Mr Touhig has to say.

Thankyou.


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Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
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Post 10 Minute Rule Bill. 
Barry's message has been emailed to Scottish Labour and SNP Members at Westminster. Have had two replies already. Lib Dems and Tories in Scotland (except David Mundell MP who says he will attend if he has the time) have not yet been emailed but it is in hand. Andy.

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Post Watch Don Touhig's 10 Minute Rule Debate - Live! 
Make a note now .... Wednesday, 21st May 2008. .... Don't forget to watch Don Touhig's 10 Minute Rule Debate in which he will state the case for the HD Committee to be accountable to Parliament.

He wants the Committee to recognise that they do not operate outside of our democratic system and must listen to, and not snub, the will of Parliament.

Let's see if any MP opposes his motion calling for democracy! Somehow, I think not. In a sense I am disappointed because, if opposed, a vote will be taken and we would win that vote - then that vote would not easily be disregarded by the Government ... or the HD Committee.

You can watch live from the floor of the Commons - it'll only take 10 minutes of your time but you will witness a little bit of history hapening ... and a huge amount of support from The Don:

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/

When there click on the icon "WHAT'S ON" (on the picture just above).

Barry

PS Timing is problematic but the session will follow Prime Ministers Questions. The video will be available to watch in the ARCHIVE section of the main parliamentlive.tv page for 28 days. Wouldn't want any of the suits to miss it!


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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'Jock' Fenton wrote:
Not wishing to be 'left behind' I too have exercised the list of all Westminster MP's as follows:

Dear MP,

It is my sincere hope that you will not discount the following request on the basis that, being Canadian, I can have no interest or involvement in UK political matters....nothing could be farther from the truth.....I am a veteran of the Malayan 'Emergency' and a vocal proponent of the right (currently denied!) of British veterans to wear the medal graciously presented to them by a grateful Malaysian nation.

My request is simple....would you, if your busy schedule will permit remain in the House for tomorrows '10 minute debate' requested by Don Touhig on the topic of the Grant of Honours Decorations and Medals Committee and their anomalous decision to permit British veterans to accept, but not wear, the Pingat Jasa Malaysia.

This decision has affected, not only UK resident veterans and their relatives but thousands of others, resident abroad....the Organization, which I represent, boasts membership and support in 30 countries on 5 Continents.....many of whom will be eagerly watching developments in Westminster via the Internet.

Thank you for taking the time to read this submission...your support would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

'Jock' Fenton
Ex Royal Corps of Signals & 17th Gurkha Division.
http://www.fight4thepjm.org/

328 Hillcroft St
Oshawa, Ontario
Canada L1G 2L9



In the few hours since I emailed this to the list of MP's I've recieved a surprisgly large number of responses, a small percentage of them 'system generated' acknowlegements to be sure, but many genuine replies....all most supportive...even those who cannot attend the debate owing to other commitments, still relay their support and best wishes.....Most encouraging!


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...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Post Cowards? 
Twisted Evil

Yes; it is doubtful if Ms Munn or some other will oppose this bill, either because they haven't got the bottle, or because they have been advised by their civil servants not to, knowing full well the outcome should it go to a vote, and used as they are to obeying their civil servants, including those who double as HD committee members, it is unlikely that the bill will be opposed.

I too, Barry, am likely to be dissappointed - aren't we all?

David

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Post Rt Hon Don Touhig 
I have sent my thanks to Don Touhig.

An overwhelming supporting vote and a second reading on the 17th October 2008. As I read it, the Bill is to make the HD Committee responsible to Parliament by way of annual reports where anomilies can be questioned, and ultimately the HD Committee bought before a Parliamentary Committee with powers to change their recommendations or have them "reconsidered" (Parliamentary language for do as you are told). His reference to the disregard paid to letters by 2 Senior Ministers, and other MPs and and their arrogance and non-accountability and the need for them to be democratically accountable to Parliament, I noted, was greeted with a many a "Hear, Hear" by those present.

I was disappointed to see that my MP left the Commons during he debate*. It may be that she had a pressing appointment, or perhaps was sidetracked. I don't doubt that she does support us, by her record of writing to Ministers and the meeting I had with her over the time I have personally been F4 active.

*In fact she had to go elsewhere on parliamentry business.





Last edited by GLOman on Thu May 22, 2008 11:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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'Didn't he do well'

I am of course referring to Don Touhig MP in his 10 minute Rule Bill about an hour ago, thanks very much Don if you are looking in! Very Happy


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Post Summary - Debate on the Accountability of the HD Committee 
Here is a summary of today's proceedings in the Commons. This debate, and its unopposed success, is a major victory for common sense and for democracy (and for PJMers). Life will never be the same again for those administering The Foreign Decorations 'Rules'!


Introduction

The rule bill was heard in the Commons on Wednesday, 21st May 2008. In the context of typical attendances for sessions that follow Prime Ministers Questions, there was a stunning turnout of MPs from all parties present in the House of Commons. This underlines the importance the House places on this issue.

Summary

Don Touhig set out his aim to make the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals (HD Committee) accountable to parliament. His bill proposes that the Committee report to Parliament once each year so that their recommendations can be scrutinised by our elected MPs.

At the present time the HD Committee acts in secret, seldom meets, and never discusses it findings or recommendations in the public domain.

The HD committee has recently made a recommendation that British Malaya-Borneo Veterans could receive a Malaysian medal but they would not be allowed to wear it [The Queen had already been advised not to apply any such restriction on the rest of the Commonwealth].

The HD recommendation is incongruous and impossible to understand and is an insult to British Veterans and to Malaysia. Malaysia is the only Muslim country that wishes to acknowledge the role of our service men and women. It is important to strengthen our relationship with countries like Malaysia, and to honour our servicemen and women who fought in the jungles of Malaysia and Borneo unlike the mandarins who have only fought in the jungles of Whitehall.

MPs have raised serious questions with the HD committee about their confusing and inconsistent recommendation and MPs have requested flexibility from the HD Committee - but have been met only by a wall of silence.

The HD Committee reviewed the recommendation last year in order that British Veterans travelling to Malaysia for the Merdeka (Independence) celebrations could wear their PJM for a week! Why? The reason this recommendation was made was to avoid embarrassment to the Duke of York who went to Kuala Lumpur. His mother, the Queen, had given permission to Australia and New Zealand veterans to wear their PJM, but not to British citizens. It would have been an embarrassment to him and this country if all Commonwealth forces other than the British were seen wearing their PJMs when celebrating the Independence of Malaysia that they had fought so hard to preserve. [The British in the UK could not wear their medal – and those returning from Malaysia had to remove their PJM and rebuild their medal bars!] Don Touhig made the point that this was ludicrous and simply not acceptable in today’s world.

The wall of silence emphasises that the HD Committee will not allow our directly elected commons to have its say. This is anathema to us and our democratic system in this country.

Some say that the work of the Committee should remain secret but the Commons already scrutinises the work of the British Intelligence Services so it should also be able to rigorously scrutinise the work of the secretive Honours and Decorations Committee.

It is the directly elected Commons that has ultimate responsibility for sending our men and women abroad to place their lives on the line, and it is the Commons that should have ultimate responsibility for decisions such as the wearing of a medal earned during that service.

The current PJM recommendation is a shame on the British nation. This must not happen again and the HD committee’s work must be subject to the scrutiny of parliament.

Don Touhig’s Bill was vociferously supported and was not opposed. The Speaker of the House asked who sponsored the Bill and Don Touhig read out a long list of MPs from all the major parties.

The Bill will now go forward to a second reading on Friday, 17th October.

Quotable Quotes:

“As things stand, this House of Commons directly elected by the people of Britain is powerless to do anything about this committee's decisions. [Interjection from MPs – ‘Disgraceful’]. This House of Commons directly elected by the people of Britain is unable to scrutinise the decisions of Unelected Mandarins.”

“Some argue that the issues on medals are sensitive and should not be brought into the public domain - if they do I ask them this. Every year a report is brought to parliament on the working of the British Intelligence Services. If this House can scrutinise the work of Britain’s security services, why can't we scrutinise the work of the HD Committee?”

Fight4thePJM Comment:

As one of our team just said to me, the success of today’s Bill heralds the final performance of a Whitehall farce!

* Today’s unopposed Bill is a significant step forward for the British Foreign Decorations Rules system and for democracy in this country. Those Rules must in future be coherent and be applied consistently. They must also reflect the ‘global’ world in which we live.

* There is hope that never again will British citizens and the British nation be subjected to such a shameful act.

* There is hope that democracy will be brought to a secret world and those operating in that world will be accountable to our directly elected House of Commons.

The 10 Minute Rule Bill can be watched on http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/ and from tomorrow will be available in the Archive section for 28 days.



Last edited by BarryF on Wed May 21, 2008 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post Don Touhig MP 
Don Touihig MP is a politician of intellect and compassion and he is a credit to his party and the people of Britain. He has taken a giant step forward in the reinstatement of our democracy and the democratic rights of British veterans of the Malaya/Borneo campaigns not to be ordered not to wear the honourable PJM by a group of unelected civil servants in the Honours and Decorations Committee who have placed themselves above the law and above the democratic rights of our population. They have cheated and conspired to deprive elderly British citizens the right to wear an honourable medal which was fought for and earned in the stinking jungles and swamps of Malaya and Borneo.

Parliament should regain its right to operate without interference from such bureaucratic tyrants and The Don (as he is affectionately known amongst veterans) has shown them the way. History has shown that despotic regimes can be forced to listen to the will of the people.

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Post Video of 10 minute Bill 
See the following link to see a video of Don Touhig speech;

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/VideoPlayer.aspx?meetingId=1760&st=12:34:55&rel=ok

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