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50+ Concerns about the PJM Decision
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Post 50+ Concerns about the PJM Decision 
Set out below is a list of many concerns submitted by those supporting the fight for the right to wear the PJM. The list is not a comprehensive summary of those concerns and is not in priority order.


“They talk about double-medalling as an objection. There are any examples of double-medals in the Rebuttal so why did they concoct the double medal excuse?”

“Then there is the 5-year rule. It’s not a ‘rule’. There are many examples of medals in the Rebuttal accepted for wear more than 5 years after events or service, so why did they pick on the PJM?”

“Their treatment of the PJM is contradicts what HMG said they were trying to do with the first year of so-called Veteran's Day. The ‘first’ thing HMG does is to mean-spiritedly deny veterans the right to wear the medal they have been awarded. Why?”

“This time, the Government cannot claim it’s a cost issue. Veterans have had their rights withheld even though, when we all have to consider budgets, it will cost this country nothing because the Malaysians are kindly footing the bill.”

“Why are issues such as the discussion on the PJM so secretive? More open discussion before the event will usually avoid bungled decisions like that discredited Ministerial Statement, and that would have saved everyone a lot of time and resources.”

“Have the civil servants acted ‘ultra vires’ (in a manner of speaking). I have read and re-read the Foreign Decoration Regulations and Rules from 1969 and 2005 respectively and I can't see any scope in any of the provisions to enable the HD Committee to waive ‘rules’ to receive a medal and then raise the same objections to stop the medal being worn. Where did that interpretation come from?”

“Why is it all one-way traffic? We have not received any help from the Government - no suggestions on how best to move our case forward, and no suggestions as to issues we should look at.”

“Why do they refuse me access to information about the recommendation (according to their interpretation of the FoIA)? What are they hiding?”

“Why is there such an all-pervading air of suspicion in this matter? We are told that the rules in force at the time of a medal request are the ones that are used. Was there any discussion behind the scenes about changing the Foreign Decorations rules after the Malaysians offered the PJM?”

“Is there not an obligation in the Civil Service Code for civil servants to consider our case even though it may not be something they wish to hear? Has the code been broken?”

“One allegation made about the PJM is that it is yet another medal implying we have many others. In reality, medals were not often awarded pre-1969 but after that date official policy changed to encourage more medals to acknowledge service.”

“I am concerned about the clear lack of compassion and sensitivity from the governmemt. Will the Government show any compassion for those that cannot speak for themselves?”

“HMG show contempt for the PJM, downgrading our medal to a souvenir or keepsake.”

“The Ministerial Statement is divisive and discriminatory. The Queen has given all other Commonwealth countries the right to wear the PJM - except the British. Why?”

“The Ministerial Statement is divisive and discriminatory as between British citizens and British taxpayers. Allegedly, British citizens with Dual Nationality can wear their medal but those with Single Nationality may not. Why? (Especially since the Statement says that HM The Queen has said that UK citizens cannot wear it)”

“The Ministerial Statement is divisive and discriminatory because British citizens with Dual Nationality have been told by some civil servants that they can wear their medal. But the Queen has said no. Is it OK to wear it in e.g. New Zealand but they must go to the cost of remaking their medal bar for the UK? Or can they wear it in the UK?”

“The Ministerial Statement is divisive and discriminatory because British citizens with Dual Nationality have been told by some civil servants that they can wear their medal in their country of residence. But the Queen has said no. If they wear it, are they being courteous to the Queen of e.g. Australia, and discourteous to the Queen of the UK?”

“The PJM decision is divisive and discriminatory as between formations e.g. 28 Commonwealth Infantry Brigade which had three contingents, Aussies, Kiwis, and Brits (including Gurkhas). Guess which contingent is the only one not allowed to wear the PJM! Why?”

“The decision is divisive and discriminatory as between squadrons/sub-units (e.g. the Life Guards) that had men serving in Borneo, while others from the unit served exclusively on the Malay Peninsula. The former have a wearable medal, the latter do not. The PJM would be the only wearable medal for those who served exclusively on the Peninsula.”

“Why all the fuss and costs the civil servants are going to try and stop our case for wearing the PJM? The problem is easily fixed. Repeal the withholding of formal permission statement. What possible harm can it do?”

“There is a history of myths surrounding British medals. The PJM is yet another sorry débacle for the MoD and others. There is a history of myths that goes back many years. See Portsmouth Today articles on the Fight4thePJM web site.”

“The recommendation is ill-considered. It sends the wrong signals when we are "at war" on several fronts and need to encourage trust in the Government that it will support our Armed Forces, both those serving and veterans.”

“The Ministerial Statement reflects the incongruous and illogical application of ‘rules’. Having applied new rules retrospectively, they then waived two of those new 'rules' in order that British veterans could receive the PJM and then invoked the same two 'rules' to stop them wearing it! Ludicrous and mean-spirited.”

“The Ministerial Statement is inconsistent and misleading when claiming long-established rules and principles. They say they don’t allow medals more than 5 years after the event but medals are being worn for service 50 years after the event (e.g. from Russia and Malta). And we mustn’t forget the many others including Britain’s very own Accumulated Campaign Service Medal.”

“The PJM decision is an insult to Malaya-Borneo veterans.”

“The PJM recommendation is even more insulting to the Agong, Government and peoples of Malaysia.”

“We have not received any help from the civil servants as evidenced by the persistent lack of cooperation, the secrecy, the obduracy and the malicious obfuscation. In the context of all the thousands of messages and questions received by us over the last 18 months, at no time have we seen anything from the MoD, FCO or Cabinet Office that might in any way be helpful to British veterans. All they do is repeat the very words we are querying. That is not civil.”

“The Ministerial Statement promulgated in Parliament implies the presence of rules binding on civilians. Is that acceptable? Is that right? Is that lawful? I don’t think so.”

“What lengths have they gone to to manipulate the situation? The Malaysians first offered the PJM to the world, and inevitably to the British, in 2004. Did the British send them away? Did the Malaysians try again on the 17th February 2005 but were sent away to re-think the terms only to re-offer it on one month later on the 17th March 2005. Why?”

“It’s rubbish for them to claim the rules are long-established. The Double-medal rule was first inserted in Foreign Decorations Rules in November 2005.”

“We are struggling to get a fair hearing. The Police (the civil servants) police and thereby please themselves.”

“This whole matter of the PJM and the way the civil servants have mismanaged it is inappropriate, undemocratic and unacceptable in this day and age.”

“Nobody in the Government or in the civil service has justified this discredited decision. There is absolutely no tenable reason why the PJM should not be worn. None.

“Why are they manipulating the rules so much? The only rules applying at the appropriate time gave the HD Committee the option to reject or accept the medal, not to stop it being worn once received.”

“There are many examples of obfuscation on the part of the civil servants. Why was the double medal rule (which was both new and retrospective) invoked and used in Press Releases and Media replies from the Foreign Office when the majority of those eligible for the PJM do not have a medal?”

“More civil servants’ obfuscation - the Ministerial Statement and subsequent utterances made by HMG and its staff both here and abroad have been carefully phrased to obfuscate the truth e.g implying that we could wear the medal.”

“If their decisions are made "in the public interest" (the excuse for withholding information from us) then the public should be aware of how their decisions affect that interest. In the case of the PJM recommendation, the matter is dealt with in secret.”

“Will the Petition to The Queen be taken into account? Our Petition seeks Her permission for us to wear the PJM with Her approval, not the civil servants’ approval.”

“Will HMG intercept our Petition and reject our appeal? If so, will The Queen be advised of that, and that our Petition to her has been rejected on the advice of civil servants?”

“If HMG or the HD Committee reject our appeal will they in effect be rejecting the Petition to the Queen - on Her behalf?”

Is the current British ‘Imperial’ Honours System relevant in today’s world? Secret Honours in Confidence in matters like PJM cannot be relevant in a 21st century democracy.”

“It’s against my human rights that they apply rules retrospectively that take away my rights. The Government and civil servants have said that when a medal is offered it is assessed by the rules that apply at the time of the offer was made. Why were the new November 2005 rules applied retrospectively?”

“In order to deny British citizens that right, the Foreign Decoration Rules were re-written one year after the PJM was offered by Malaysia. This is neither fair nor ‘legal’.”

“We have been told that we have no right of appeal. With decisions that touch on so many ordinary lives, that is unsafe and unsatisfactory in this day and age.”

“Why do the civil servants have to create spin and myths to stop the honourable PJM being worn? They say that it is long-standing practice that Foreign medals are not worn by British citizens - ask those who wear medals from Russia, Malta, Brunei and many, many, more countries (listed in our Rebuttal).”

“Do the suits know what went on in Malaya-Borneo (and Indonesia!) in The Forgotten War? Many operations in Malaya-Borneo were so secret that they were not divulged until the mid-1980’s because the dangerous operations were carried out the other side of the border in Indonesia. Is this why they, the civil servants, think nothing happened out there?”

“The British Government should consider the Malaysian Perspective. Next year is the 50th Anniversary of Merdeka in Malaysia. The PJM’s status must reflect that, as a wearable and honourable award, because without PJM service, Merdeka would not have happened.”

“This is the 40th Anniversary of the end of Confrontation and 40 years after the time of PJM service. The Malaysians remember that and their views should be of paramount importance to us.”

“Having read the Citation that accompanies the PJM when sent in the post (it is on the Fight4thePJM web site), there is no tenable reason why recipients should have permission withheld to wear the medal they have received.”

The lack of goodwill behind the infamous PJM decision beggars belief. Nothing is at stake yet the decision is mean-spirited and it is incomprehensible to most right-minded people.”

“The decision on the honourable PJM is made at an unfortunate time, and their assertion that the PJM compromises the integrity of the system is insensitively promulgated, when "cash for honours" is in the UK news!”

“What is meant by “compromise the system”? This is pure obfuscation. Who and/or what are going to be compromised?”

“When applying medal rules, there is a need to differentiate between uniformed personnel who are subject to enforceable regulations and uniform code, and civilians who are not.”

“They are trying to exert unpleasant pressures on British veterans, tantamount to blackmail. We are told that the wearing of unauthorised awards is a grave discourtesy to Her Majesty The Queen. Why, then, are we being actively encouraged by HMG and its civil servants to wear the PJM without Her approval?”

“We are told the HD Committee made their decision on 7/12/2005. We are told The Queen approves all these recommendations. On what date did HM The Queen sign their recommendation?”

“We are told The Queen approves changes to the Foreign Decorations Rules. On what date did The Queen sign the new November 2005 rules?”

“We are told The Queen approves exceptions to the Foreign Decorations Rules. Did The Queen sign the exception that was the recommendation that she approved?”

You can download this information in text or pdf format (the civil servants may wish to use the list as a checklist this month):

http://www.fight4thepjm.org/documents/PJM_Appeal_List_of_Supporters_Issues_V4.txt
http://www.fight4thepjm.org/documents/PJM_Appeal_List_of_Supporters_Issues_V4.pdf


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Post Re: 50+ Concerns about the PJM Decision 
BarryF wrote:


“We have not received any help from the civil servants as evidenced by the persistent lack of cooperation, the secrecy, the obduracy and the malicious obfuscation. In the context of all the thousands of messages and questions received by us over the last 18 months, at no time have we seen anything from the MoD, FCO or Cabinet Office that might in any way be helpful to British veterans. All they do is repeat the very words we are querying. That is not civil.”


Well Barry and the 1000+ supporters on this site HELP IS AT HAND! It says so here http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/about_us/about_us.html and it is a Freephone telephone number the MoD is here to help you and it is estimated there are 10000000 Veterans and as Admiral Nelson once said 'Do Your Duty'


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Did you also know that HMG gave permission to receive the PJM by The Brits before the Malaysian Government offered the PJM to The UK! I quote from the MoD Veterans Agency website which is Crown Copyright

The Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal

Background
In 2005 the Malaysian Government approached the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) to seek approval to present their new medal, known as the Pingat Jasa Malaysia, to British veterans and others who served in operations in Malaya/Malaysia between August 1957 and August 1966.

This was not a matter for the Ministry of Defence. On behalf of the Government, the FCO are responsible for administering the policy relating to the acceptance and wear of non-British awards by British citizens. They arranged for the matter to be considered by the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals, (known as the HD Committee). This is a non-political, inter-Departmental committee, Chaired by the Cabinet Secretary, which advises The Queen on such matters. The Committee considered the matter of the PJM in the light of the rules governing the accepting and wearing of non-British awards and made recommendations to The Queen.

As a result, on 31st January 2005 the Minister for Trade, Investment and Foreign Affairs, Mr Ian Pearson made a Written Ministerial Statement to the House of Commons as follows:



OOPS ! Shocked


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Post John Rushton's reaction 
Spontaneously reacting to the posting of this list John Rushton made sure that his MP was also made aware of our concerns....his covering letter posted herewith, with John's kind permission...
=========================================

Dear Mr. Bayley,

I thought you may be interested in the attached document from the fight4thePJM web site at www.fight4thePJM.org

It lists succinctly, over 50 concerns we have about the decision the Honours and Decorations Committee made about the Pingat Jasa Malaysia award, a decision we are challenging.

I hope to hear from you soon in respect of my previous communications.

Your constituent,

John Rushton,

(Personal details deleted)


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Post Address The Jury-The Jury's Answer (or perhaps not) 
Previous letter exchange ==

Dear Mr Edge,

I am receipt of a response to my e-mail of the 5th of October, to the FCO, a) for which I thank you and b) I include for your convenience.

=(Dear Sir / Madam,

I have been subject to a decision made by the Honours and Decorations Committee in respect of the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal, awarded by the Agong and Government of Malaysia to those Commonwealth personnel who served in that country during the "Emergency" and "Confrontation".
This decision led to a written Ministerial Statement by the then Minister for Trade, Investment and Foreign Affairs, Mr Ian Pearson MP, on the 31st of January 2006.
In essence, I am allowed to accept this medal for my service in Malaysia but lack any formal permission to wear it following the HD Committees recommendation to Her Majesty the Queen..

I find this a decision that is unfair and unjust, and an insult to our Malaysian friends.particularly in light of the fact that other Commonwealth personnel (Australian, New Zealand) have been given that permission to accept and wear this award, also by Her Majesty.

I note that in the FCO booklet for staff, namely "Getting it Right", any release of information is subject to the "In the Public Interest" test (page 24 section 37). On page 19 of the booklet, this suggests a criteria of contributing to public understanding.

Other Veterans have asked for sight of the minutes of the HD Committee meeting that made these decision and been refused under the Section 37 quoted above.

I do not understand how these decisions have been made, neither do many thousands of Veterans and others involved. However, in this instance I speak for myself. I believe these decisions to be unfair and unjust . Surely, if the decisions taken by the HD Committee have been made with sound evidence and argument, as one would hope, and can explain on what basis British Veterans are being treated so differently to others, then the HD Committee have nothing to fear from the release of these minutes where they appertain to the PJM discussions.


Yours faithfully,

(Name and address supplied) =


In his reply to me, Mr Anthony J Hart records that the Rebuttal Statement, views of veterans and all other submitted documentation, will be considered by the HD Committee by the end of November.

It is pleasing to know that rebuttal statement and other documents are under active consideration, however, should the HD Committee decide not to accept the Rebuttal Statement and continue to advise the refusal of permission to wear the PJM, would it be right to assume that in those circumstances that the HD Committee had also recommended to Her Majesty that the Petition she has received on this matter, should not be accepted?

I would find it difficult beyond belief, that Her Majesty the Queen would knowingly allow her Commonwealth Veterans the right to wear this award yet deny this same right, for the same medal, for the same service, to her British Veterans irrespective of the argument previously put forward about other countries having opted out of the honours system.



I would appreciate your comments on this matter,




Yours sincerely,

(Name and address supplied)


Todays e-mailed response



Subject: PINGAT JASA MALAYSIA




"Dear Correspondent,

I am afraid that we do not have the resources to maintain e-mail exchanges with all who are continuing to send messages about the PJM and related issues.

I believe that you know the current situation..................that the PJM is being looked at again by the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals (HD Committee), in the light of the Rebuttal Statement, and subsequent papers and comments from you and others.. An announcement about any recommendations by the HD Committee will be made once the matter has been considered.

Yours sincerely,
Chris Edge
Chris Edge
Honours Secretary
Foreign and Commonwealth Office "

If the asking of reasonable, fair and polite questions to people who are employed to serve this country, is a strain on resources, Mr Edge should know that his resource issue can be resolved at a stroke....................... Wink

I used up one or two of my resources serving this country over twenty six years service with the Colours and the Reserve. Did I complain.........well maybe once or twice. Laughing


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Semengo13 wrote:


Todays e-mailed response



Subject: PINGAT JASA MALAYSIA




"Dear Correspondent,

I am afraid that we do not have the resources to maintain e-mail exchanges with all who are continuing to send messages about the PJM and related issues.

I believe that you know the current situation..................that the PJM is being looked at again by the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals (HD Committee), in the light of the Rebuttal Statement, and subsequent papers and comments from you and others.. An announcement about any recommendations by the HD Committee will be made once the matter has been considered.

Yours sincerely,
Chris Edge
Chris Edge
Honours Secretary
Foreign and Commonwealth Office "

If the asking of reasonable, fair and polite questions to people who are employed to serve this country, is a strain on resources, Mr Edge should know that his resource issue can be resolved at a stroke....................... Wink

I used up one or two of my resources serving this country over twenty six years service with the Colours and the Reserve. Did I complain.........well maybe once or twice. Laughing


So where does this leave Snail Mail?????????????


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Post Missing files. 
I wrote to my Scottish MP several weeks ago in support of the call to ask for access to the three files then in "limbo" and have had no reply so far. We PJMers are probably thin on the ground up here in the highlands of Scotland and a chap calling himself "Drummer" might be my only near comrade. I would love to do more but even getting a plumber to come out might take a week, if one is lucky. I was delighted to hear of Macdangle's present from Father Christmas coming early, but he is in the soft underbelly of God's aine country where the postie comes every day. I doubt The wee gong will be coming my way in a whilie, if ever.
I remember getting my GSM. IT was sitting in its tiny white cardboard box on top of a tin of free issue fags on top of my bed in a basha when I got back from a few days without a bed. Gus, the basha bearer, explained what it was and lent me a couple of dollars to go to the NAAFI.
I'm amazed at what you guys have done in this great fight and behind you all the way. I recently had to sit by the bed of my 94 year old father as he passed away. He fought in his time at El alemain with the 8th Army, went all across North Africa and then invaded Italy. He was at the landing at Anzio, later at Cassino and got to Trieste after fighting his way over the Garrigliano River......only to be called..."A D Day Dodger." I had mentioned the PJM and while he was dying he asked how things were going. "Keep at the sods," he said.
Mike Barton.


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Mike Barton
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Post Re: Address The Jury-The Jury's Answer (or perhaps not) 
Semengo13 wrote:
Previous letter exchange ==
I used up one or two of my resources serving this country over twenty six years service with the Colours and the Reserve. Did I complain.........well maybe once or twice. Laughing


Fantastic stuff, Semongo13.

Simply brilliant.

Barry


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Mike

That is a hell of a story, it is a great pity that (probably) most in our Civil Service don't realise that a gun goes 'bang' when the trigger is pulled which is all very sad as it is these people that were responding to emails can never understand the situation regarding the Armed Forces but can understand what winning The Ashes back from Australia mean (MBE's all round indeed). The people we should be approaching are the 8 people on the HD Committee, unfortunately not only are they unapproachable they are, apparently, unaccountable to anyone.

Pah, so much for democracy and the Mother of All Parliaments
Mad


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Post Re: Missing files. 
MB wrote:
"Keep at the sods," he said.


I couldn't ask for any greater incentive, Mike.

My uncle (also my god-father) was in some of the same shouts as your dad (El Alamein/8th Army, Sicily, Italy), having been in the BEF but managed to get off the Dunkirk beaches. He then went in on D-Day and was killed. Buried in Bayeux.

Perhaps the two will be sharing a a few 'warries' even as we speak, bless'em.

Thanks for your, and your dad's, support.

Barry


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Post Re MB after a shank of lamb with mint sauce, etc 
Now taking a tincture of brandy...and why the hell not.
Thinking back through the grey soup of memory I remember my grandfather. He joined the army in 1912 at the age of 18. His first regiment was the 1st Londons but he transferred to the Lancashire Reg with whom he fought at Gallipoly where he was wounded but was later made a Sgt (in the field). He then went on to serve at the first day of the Somme and was again wounded. Shipped home for a while he recovered enough to go back until a slighter wound saw him back in Blighty when he was sent as an instructor to the infantry training depot of the Cheshire Regt. In 1920 he was accepted as a Sgt into the Coldstream Gds and was one of those chosen to stand...rifles reversed,ect...at the tomb of the Unknown Soldier when he was brought back from France. After my week's embarkation leave before Malaya My grandad carried my kitbag to the local railway station. My dad carried my big and small packs. It was a gesture of family solidarity. Sadly my grandfather died in 1958 while I was in Malaya. I got the news after another time away from my base and I must admit that I went for a cup of tea and a bun at the WVS canteen. One of the ladies listened to my tale of woe and cuddled me just as my mother would have done. So much for bloody heroes, hey. I was twenty years old at the time and thought I was a man. I now have grandad's medals and my dad's and I intend handing them and my two, if I get the other. on to my grandson. Keep on at the sods indeed! Mike Barton.


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Post Latest List of PJMers Concerns 
Here is the latest list of PJMers concerns.

It is not comprehensive - and it is not in priority order.

http://www.fight4thepjm.org/Correspondence/PJM_Appeal_List_of_Supporters_Issues_061106.pdf


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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John Cooper wrote:
these people that were responding to emails can never understand the situation regarding the Armed Forces but can understand what winning The Ashes back from Australia mean (MBE's all round indeed).


Not just the cricketers who were gonged - what about the rugger players? didn't they get gonged as well?


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Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
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Post MB has just submitted a letter. Where has it gone? 
Dear Barry. Have submitted a post while I was logged in, and followed all usual proceedures. If it is a matter of editing Pharo Nuff. Mike Barton.


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Chris Edge
Honours Secretary
Foreign and Commonwealth Office



Dear Mr Chris Edge.

Many thanks for your prompt reply to my last e.mail, but can I now prevail on you to answer one more question which is,


Can you please confirm when we may hear about our Petition to the Queen? This is a quite different issue to the consideration being given to the Rebuttal.




Yours sincerely
George Sanderson

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