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owen lawrence
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 78
Location: Groby, Leicestershire
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MOD Oracle Article
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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Arthur R-S
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 860
Location: Brandon, Suffolk
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Hello Jock,
That is the wonderful thing about plausable deniability, they go into denial regarding their disasterous decision and the subsequent recommendation to Her Majesty.
Of course, that was rationalisation... being the noble art of justifying to themselves, that which is unjustifiable.
It is rather reminiscent of the term 'intellectualisation' - being a defence mechanism, whereby problems are analysed in remote, intellectual terms, whilst emotion, effect and feeling are ignored. Rather like a child that has committed the cardinal sin of being caught in the act, and denying that they had done it... rationalisation... what a wonderful word.
Always here to pick holes in the Honours and Decorations Committee's arguement, and on that note, when are they coming round to decorate my house.
Yours Aye
Arthur
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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Redcapfred
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 243
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Very well said Barry, and thanks for spreading the word John, now to do my bit as an extention to my email to Meg Munn which I sent yesterday.
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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'Jock' Fenton
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1222
Location: Ontario, Canada
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A 'MUST READ'....Mod Oracle publishes the facts !!!!!
MoD Oracle published, on it's site, a 'Guardian' article, which inappropriately described the status of and circumstances surrounding the PJM...This offended many readers....particularly PJM'ers!
We responded:
'Jock' Fenton wrote:Herewith my e-mailed response to the MoD article Owen mentions.....
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To whom it may concern:
On behalf of the membership of the 'Fight4thePJM' Association...representing all eligible recipients of the Pingat Jasa Malaysia and their (currently denied) right to wear that honour, I really must strenuously protest the latest demonstration of misinformative prose to emanate from your office.
Regarding your article "Malaya Veterans Defiant Over Medals " (7th November).
Why would you consider it necessary to include reference to an incident (alleged !) from 1948, in an article that purports to comment on the qualifying service requirements for the PJM? ...which decoration is specifically awarded for service between 1957 and 1966 only.
Has this been inserted into the narrative out of ignorance?....or perhaps malice?
In addition, with reference to the oft-repeated and completely spurious, 'double medal' ,allegations of the GSM and the PJM to which you refer. How is it possible that you, of all organizations, can remain unaware that most UK veterans, who served between 1957 and 1966 do NOT have a British medal?
Added to that fact, there are 40+ 'wearable' medals that violate the (so-called) 'rules' to which you refer, including the Malta Medal, and the Russia Medal (both enforced double medals, given permission to be worn 50 years after the events).
It would seem to me, in the interest of historic accuracy and common decency, that your retraction would be quickly forthcoming and I look forward with much interest to reading same.
I remain Sirs,
Yours Truly
John Gordon Fenton.
Chairman: 'Fight4thePJM' Association.
As a result of this, our somewhat pointed letter, we were contacted by MoD Oracle as follows:
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Dear Mr Fenton,
The Guardian article we ran about the Malayan campaign has generated feedback from yourself and your colleagues. I was wondering if you could provide me with some further information about the inaccuracies of this article and about your organisation. This is with a view to publishing it or at least being able to correct the earlier story.
By all means give me a call to speed this process up.
With respectful regards,
Andrew Perkins
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Immediately thereafter, some intensive work by our indefatigable pals, Barry & Gerry, resulted in Mod Oracle receiving much FACTUAL information about the PJM and 'Fight4'.....this published article is the result of the 'Fight4' teams combined efforts...with all due thanks to those who 'generated feedback'!....Too lengthy to copy here but read and enjoy it at the link...
http://www.modoracle.com/news/Malaya-Campaign-Veterans-Respond_14536.html
_________________ ...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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Our Response to the MoD Oracle/The Guardian Article
I see from the MoD Oracle web site that I have been promoted to "Secretary"! THis has got to be just teh best news yet and a sign of 'blings' to come. Am I in line for the Antigua & Barbuda 25th Anniversary Medal? I can remember that the 'secretaries' of at least one of the HD Committee, and Sir Sir Sir Robin Janvrin, were awarded this medal just a few months ago. And this Foreign award was given Unrestricted Acceptance for wear even though it was in respect of events more than 5 years ago!
Anyway ... back to the MoD Oracle Debacle. Here is our response, first in PDF format:
http://www.fight4thepjm.org/documents/MoD_Oracle_Guardian_Rebuttal_091107_full.pdf
And, in case you cannot open the PDF, here it is in jpg format:
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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admin
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 98
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Topic moved from Media to this new Forum
This issue is so important that we have moved the Topic to this new Forum so that it does not get buried below the thousands of other posts on this web site.
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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'Jock' Fenton
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1222
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Our Response to the MoD Oracle/The Guardian Article
BarryF wrote:I see from the MoD Oracle web site that I have been promoted to "Secretary"!
Promotion well deserved Barry and long overdue!.
...Thanks for posting the original text pdf. and jpeg.
.....It's much more 'handsomely' presented and more 'readable' in .pdf....(my personal opinion!)
_________________ ...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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jireland
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 566
Location: Wiltshire
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Sent to the usual suspects ie politicians and press.
John
Dear all, much misinformation has been put about by those close to the government, the MOD and the Foreign Office about the PJM and much of it is fallacious in the extreme. I have sent you the rebuttal by Barry Fleming which has been published by the MOD Oracle in order to balance the story. Barry has written a full and honest appreciation of the ‘story so far’. It has been called a rebellion by the media, so far it is only a protest!
John
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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'Jock' Fenton
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1222
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Bravo John.....this is exactly the sort of action we need (and have come to anticipate from you!)
_________________ ...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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I'm sure we could all send our experiences by email and .jpeg of tomorrows proceedings where-ever you attend Remembrance Day ceremonies to arrive on Brennans and The FCO's in-boxes for first thing Monday morning, those that can't attend a parade or have yet to receive their PJM perhaps a copy of those Chelsea Pensioners sporting theirs in that Daily Express photo would suffice
_________________ --------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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jireland
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 566
Location: Wiltshire
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Well folks, I attended the Royal Performance at the Albert Hall this evening and a fine show it was too. There were many PJM's on parade including mine but I did notice a few RBL Standard Bearers wearing theirs. The rebellion grows!!!
John
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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Arthur R-S
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 860
Location: Brandon, Suffolk
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So, Luke Skywalker,,, the rebellion grows does it?
We are now part of the rebel alliance.
May the force be with us.... and I don't mean the police force.
Yours Aye
Arthur
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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'Jock' Fenton
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1222
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Arthur R-S wrote:Guilt and shame must be a terrible burden for those individuals to carry, yet they could shed that load quite easily, by saying yes. Then we can close the chapter on this dismal affair.
I fear, Brother Arthur, that members of the HD Committee feel neither, shame nor remorse regarding their arbitrary and anomalous decision...persons of privilege that they are, they seem to adopt the insufferably supercilious attitude that a situation is right and appropriate simply because they say it is....and we 'the great unwashed', must peaceably accede to the infinite wisdom of their pronouncements, respectfully tugging our forelocks and muttering 'Aye gaffer!'.
..If we do not, then by definition, we are categorized as 'disaffected malcontents' whose protestations offer insult to the 'Imperial Honours System'.
Sort of makes you proud to have served doesn't it?
_________________ ...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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Redcapfred
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 243
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NO, NOT British police, they look Asian to me.
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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Arthur R-S
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 860
Location: Brandon, Suffolk
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MoD Oracle and the Guilt trip
Resident trick cyclist here.
When a Government makes many political blunders, it tries to conceal that fact by 'blinding you with science'. This effectively masks the true nature of the problem... sort of smoke screen as it were.
To cover the respective rear ends of certain individuals, certain arbitrary decisions are made, not with the intention of resolving the impasse, but to further compound their guilt.
I have referred to the practice of groupthink, that old chestnut, whereby, within group decision making proceedures, the latent tendency for the various members of a group to try to achieve consensus. The need for agreement takes priority over the motivation to try to obtain accurate information and knowledge, that would enable them to make appropriate decisions. This tendency has been mooted as the prime reason why politicians and the Honours and Decorations Committee, operating in closed groups, make such disasterous decisions.
Guilt and shame must be a terrible burden for those individuals to carry, yet they could shed that load quite easily, by saying yes. Then we can close the chapter on this dismal affair.
Yours Aye
Arthur
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:10 pm |
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