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mcdangle
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1027
Location: Scotland
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Queen Dismayed?
In an article published in the Scottish Sunday Express dated 19th. November, 2006, headed THE QUEEN'S DISMAY AT CASH FOR HONOURS PROBE.
It is said that 'the Queen is said to be worried that the entire honours system could be tarnished forever by the cash for peerages scandal'. Its also says that 'The Queen knows that the honours system and the scandal surrounding it has become a matter of lunacy'.
The article asked 'has Tony Blair besmirched the honours system and ruined it for life' and is asking readers to phone in Yes or No.
The Queen, we are told, set up the Honours and Decorations Committee and we are told they report direct to the Queen and that they are solely responsible for the integrity of the honours system. This is the same committee that allowed a fraudist to obtain an MBE on fraudulent references and this is the same committee who have embarrassed HM The Queen throughout the world by recommending that British veterans of Malaya/Borneo should not be allowed to wear the PJM when other Commonwealth veterans are permitted, by the same Queen, to wear it.
Lunacy, Your Majesty, no plain incompetence and arrogance. No, Tony Blair has not ruined the honours system on his own, it is the people tasked with protecting it that have assisted him - the Honours and Decorations Committee. They have created unnecessary poblems for the Queen on three occasions that are known, how many chances at making a mess of their responsibilities are they to be allowed?
I know I am prejudiced but the facts do not lie.
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Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:07 am |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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Re: Queen Dismayed?
mcdangle wrote:THE QUEEN'S DISMAY
mcdangle,
As you know, I penned a few emails at the weekend. This is an excert from just one.
The Queen may be dismayed, but I am well miffed.
- - - - start - - -
"… their appalling behaviour when
• in the context of the Queen having approved the PJM for wear by Australians and New Zealanders;
• and in the context of Britain’s inaugural National Veterans Day;
• and in the context of the 40th Anniversary of the End of active service operations in Malaysia;
• and in the context of The Queen’s 80th Birthday celebrations,
• and in the context of next year's 50th Anniversary of Malaysian 'Merdeka' that would never have happened had we failed in those PJM operations,
the London Parliament and the civil servants who lead it by the nose displayed a colossal disregard for honour and truth when
• they rewrote part of the Imperial Honours System ‘rules’
• and introduced new ‘rules’ to Foreign Decorations,
• and then applied them retrospectively just so that
• (a) they could be waived in order that The Queen could approve acceptance of the PJM and then
• (b) so that they could be immediately invoked so that She could approve acceptance of the PJM only on condition that British citizens alone in the Commonwealth did not wear the medal they had just received!
And all that in secret, behind closed doors, just to begrudge British veterans an acknowledgement of their unique achievement, with their Commonwealth comrades in arms, in Malaysia and for Malaysia and for security in the Far East. An acknowledgment that will cost the Exchequer nothing.
That is truly appalling. No matter what the technical arguments (and I have written hundreds of pages), it all comes down to the fact that those civil servants having displayed staggering arrogance and contempt for us."
Having got that off my chest, I'm getting back to those techie arguments that underline why we feel so frustrated and angry.
Where's me quill ...
Barry
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:35 pm |
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John Feltham
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 764
Location: Townsville, North Queensland
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Barry,
I want to put my name to what you have said. [Written].
What arrogance these civil serpents have.
_________________ Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
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Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:24 pm |
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mcdangle
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1027
Location: Scotland
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Re: Queen Dismayed?
George F wrote:mcdangle wrote: This is the same committee that allowed a fraudist to obtain an MBE on fraudulent references and this is the same committee who have embarrassed HM The Queen throughout the world by recommending that British veterans of Malaya/Borneo should not be allowed to wear the PJM when other Commonwealth veterans are permitted, by the same Queen, to wear it.
mcdangle wrote: This is the same committee that allowed a fraudist to obtain an MBE on fraudulent references and this is the same committee who have embarrassed HM The Queen throughout the world by recommending that British veterans of Malaya/Borneo should not be allowed to wear the PJM when other Commonwealth veterans are permitted, by the same Queen, to wear it.
With respect Andy,
The HD committee which give advice to the Queen re the PJM medal is not the same committee which is involved with Honours for cash or the fraudlist guy who obtained an MBE.
There are a number of different HD committees who deal with sport, drama, civil list and Military & foreign medals. The Honours for cash and the fraudlist MBE controversary is the Civil List HD committee.
George F
[url=http://upload4.postimage.org/1701382/photo_hosting.html][img]
George,
I disagree. According to this there is only one Honours and Decorations Committee which reports to Her Majesty the Queen on many matters affecting honours and dignities. The main committee obtains assistance from various other committees but I cannot find any other Honours and Decorations Committee which reports to the Queen. It certainly seems the same one to me with the same members who recommended to the Queen that the PJM should not be worn. The recommendations they made look as if they came from another committe ie. fco,mod, and cabinet office but not having access to documents I cannot say yes or no. I would suggest that the Civil List HD Committee is a sub-committe of this main one.
It would help matters if you would curb your propensity to prove people wrong all the time.
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Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:18 pm |
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mcdangle
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1027
Location: Scotland
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George F.
I tried to post this with my earlier reply but made a hash of it.
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Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:20 pm |
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jireland
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 566
Location: Wiltshire
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It matters not chaps if there is one or one hundred and one committees, they have all been tarred with the same brush. They are all inept and the Queen has at last spoken out about them (collectively) does this mean that perhaps, just perhaps, the PJM figures in her getting p----d off with the corruption of a system that worked reasonabley well before. Before what, well, before Blair of course.
John
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Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:14 pm |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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jireland wrote:It matters not chaps if there is one or one hundred and one committees, they have all been tarred with the same brush.
That, John, is the crux of the matter.
They are all so amateur in a professional world (see John Cooper's signature) that they all fall under the same sword.
Barry
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:03 pm |
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ro5=6372
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 1763
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..
Last edited by ro5=6372 on Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:14 pm |
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Arthur R-S
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 860
Location: Brandon, Suffolk
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Queen Dismayed?
Well, I can honestly say that there is a very long precedence for the Queen being dismayed.
It all started when I swore the oath of allegience at the Royal Navy Recruitment Office, in Reading, way back in 19... I think senile demetia is setting in, I cannot, (or don't want to ) remember.
Having said that, she has had a few shocks over the years, engendered by the incompetence of the Civil Servants, MP's and I'm afraid to say it, the wayward behaviour of her heirs and successors. Thank God the corgis are well behaved, if only to shown the establishment that there is a sense of normality in Buckingham Palace.
I have visions of myself kneeling before Her Majesty, to be tapped on the shoulder, for my knighthood, then she suddenly slashes downward with the sword, and says..
Arise Cir Cumcised, at which, she disolves into howls of laughter.
Do I need to tell anybody about this?
Yours potentially vasectomised
Arthur
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Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:57 pm |
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jireland
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 566
Location: Wiltshire
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The point o noble colleagues is that she is 'dismayed' now that is the equivalent of you and I saying that we are F-----g P----d off and is a very strong comment for Her Maj to come out with. The blue touch paper has been lit................................!
John
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Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:52 pm |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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Re: Queen Dismayed?
Arthur R-S wrote:Well, I can honestly say ...
.... Arise Cir Cumcised,
.... vasectomised
Ahhhhhhhhthur, I seeeeeee.
These few 'snips' indicate your 'circumspect' approach to 'victimisation'.
I fink.
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:16 pm |
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'Jock' Fenton
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1222
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:The point o noble colleagues is that she is 'dismayed'
Am I to understand that this comment is directly attributable to Her Majesty?....Or is it the opinion of a newspaper columnist speculating as to the Royal disposition?....not being resident in the UK and having the benefit of direct access to the newspapers it's difficult for me to decide whether this is a Royal 'quote' or creative writing.
_________________ ...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:20 pm |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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For those interested in the openness of our 'honours' system, these may be of interest:
Here is the Phillips Report that Blair called for: http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/publications/reports/honours/honours.pdf
Here we see that the HD Committee did not benefit from the recommendations of the Phillips report: http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page7650.asp
In any event, here is what happened to one bit: http://www.spinwatch.org/content/view/1312/9/
So while it may appear that some on this Forum are in dispute about the minutiae, whether they like it or not, they are actually all correct!
Barry
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:41 pm |
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IvorJ
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
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What sort of a honours system is it that gives awards to entertainers, sports people etc who have earnt fortunes in their chosen fields. Certainly those who have contributed to the community through charity work or to the public good should be recognised, but really should winning a cricket match or a rugby match warrant an honour. Sorry Elizabeth Rx but your honours sytem is already compromised and quite honestly is bit of a joke. Yet those 35000 veterans who are entitled to the PJM are having to fight to the bitter end for what is their right. Shame on the British establishment.
By the way when England lose the Ashes will the cricketers hand back their awards (if I'm wrong I'll buy everyone a beer. If you come to Queensland for it!
_________________ All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing
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Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:38 pm |
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John Feltham
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 764
Location: Townsville, North Queensland
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BarryF wrote:For those interested in the openness of our 'honours' system, these may be of interest:
Here is the Phillips Report that Blair called for: http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/publications/reports/honours/honours.pdf
In his opening Letter Sir Hayden Philips says....
"The system must not be captured by those organisations or individuals who know how to use it;"
Who do you think that I thought of first, doing just that?
Answer the civil serpents.
He then goes on to reinforce that point by saying....
"Those who chair the specialist committees which advise on recommendations should be
independent of Government and the Civil Service to encourage a more open and independent
system."
And then covers his arse by saying, ""I have considered but rejected the creation of a wholly independent Honours Commission
which would in my view be a disproportionate and costly response to criticism;"
In other words, Chaps and Chapesses, no change will occur.
_________________ Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
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Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:26 am |
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