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Veterans Badge
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Post Veterans Badge 
Dear all, I have attached below the link to the Vets Page of the Veterans Agency in regard to the Veterans Badge. Eligability has now been extended to 31 Dec 1969.

Of special interest to members of this site is the gushing praise of Mr. Ingram for the veterans of Malaysia, Borneo and Sarawak!!!

John


http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/HistoryAndHonour/VeteransBadgeAwardedTo1960sVeterans.htm

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Post Veterans Badge 
John
I read the news about the extension of the qualifying period of the badge, but the Veterans Agency web site still has December 1959 as the closing date, and the application form also has this date. It looks as though, once again the MOD have somehow informed a small number of people of the increased eligibility at the same time keeping it off their own publicity web site. Shades of the debacle over the so-called National Veterans Day. Can this shower get nothing right?
GerryL


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Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)
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Post Re: Veterans Badge 
GerryL wrote:
John
I read the news about the extension of the qualifying period of the badge, but the Veterans Agency web site still has December 1959 as the closing date, and the application form also has this date. It looks as though, once again the MOD have somehow informed a small number of people of the increased eligibility at the same time keeping it off their own publicity web site. Shades of the debacle over the so-called National Veterans Day. Can this shower get nothing right?
GerryL


No they can't. I was given my Veterans badge for this qualifying period, in July at a mobile Veterans Agency caravan. This despite my absolute honesty and integrity ("suits", please check what these terms mean in the nearest dictionary) about not being in the qualifying period ending December 1959. 12 days short. Rolling Eyes



Last edited by Semengo13 on Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

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More details on the BEEB http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6129998.stm

Now why can't we get the PJM into the headlines?


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All you have to do is to change the date yourself, you can't expect the civil service to do everything for you!!!!!

John

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Post Re: Veterans Badge 
jireland wrote:
Of special interest to members of this site is the gushing praise of Mr. Ingram for the veterans of Malaysia, Borneo and Sarawak!!!


The Armed Forces Minister also said that the recipients should have been honoured "many, many years ago".

"This is a debt of honour which helps to recognise the huge contribution veterans have made," he said.

Now, he's not done his homework, has he. He hasn't read the script from his masters in the civil service.

"Many, many years ago" sounds suspiciously like "more than 5 years ago". And the MoD and FCO allegedly can't see that long ago let alone remember what veterans did.

Being eligible for the Veterans Badge, I don't want to bring water to the parade. But as the MoD warms up to spending massive resources on next year's 25th Falklands Anniversary Commemorations (which is why they are speeding up delivery of the Veterans Badge so they can get it to Falklands veterans next year), shouldn't they be more consistent and acknowledge the service of Malaya-Borneo veterans in the same way as they acknowledge the service of others?

Of course, Falklands Veterans deserve their acknowledgment and the honour they will receive next year (the contributor who started this thread is one of them, I believe). But I must have missed it if there has ever been any acknowledgement or commemoration of the 18 years of operations in Malaya-Borneo.

Have I missed something?

Or were those operations so far away, and of so little interest to the British Government, that they have become the "Forgotten Wars".

Not with us, they haven't.


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Post A way out with Honour 
You have all heard the old saying 'his glass is half empty or half full depending on whether he is an optimist or a pessimist' well my glass is now three quarters full!

Why do I say this? well the tenor of the comments coming out of Whitehall seems to be mellowing and the Veterans Badge comment does show a tendency towards the positive from Mr. Ingram. Perhaps I am expecting too much but if I was a Government Minister or a Civil Servany on the receiving end of this little lot, I would be looking for a way out with honour. Are they looking for that? We will see, my money is that they are.

Regards

John

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John Cooper wrote:
More details on the BEEB http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6129998.stm


And here The Minister Adam Ingram is quoted......

"Mr Ingram, speaking at the presentation at the Ministry of Defence, in Whitehall, said the recipients should have been honoured "many, many years ago".

"This is a debt of honour which helps to recognise the huge contribution veterans have made," he said."

In Papua New Guinea the natives have a good word to describe this kind of stuff. "Maus warer".

Try saying is a little faster and you'll get the translation - "mouth water".

What a descriptive word, isn't it?

"Dribble" comes close, but just not close enough.

When will Adam Ingram and his Ministry, come clean and really pay the honour that the country's Veterans deserve, the honour that he says is a debt owed by this country to its veterans?


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Perhaps I am being too generous John but I sincerely hope not.

John

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jireland wrote:
Perhaps I am being too generous John but I sincerely hope not.

John


John I/JohnF

If that statement by Adam Ingram is from his heart then I applaud him for his kind words, if on the other hand................


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..



Last edited by ro5=6372 on Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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I do understand the depth of ill feeling that this issue has caused amongst us and I too feel the same. It has only reinforced my contempt of this government but it has done something else to me as well, it has made me question my loyalty to my country. My own political life is now also an issue as I have lost faith in the entire system. Call me Dave, Artone and Minging Mingo all remind me of cartoon characters in aparticularly poor third rate production. Roll on the revolution.

John

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Post Veterans Badge 
Letter I have sent to the Armed Forces Minister,



Dear Mr Ingram,

I am delighted to hear that the qualifying dates for the Veterans Badge has recently been extended to 1969.

Those now eligible for the badge will I am sure be equally pleased to receive it.

I add below, a paragraph from MOD News, quoting from your recent speech when awarding badges to Veterans who are newly eligible to receive it.

With the 10 year extension of eligibility for the two badges, thousands more veterans will be entitled, including those who served in Aden (1964-1967) where 167 British service personnel lost their lives, Malaysia (1964-1966) and in Northern Ireland at the start of the troubles in 1969. Mr Ingram said "Today there are 10 million veterans living, working and contributing across every walk of life in the United Kingdom. The HM Armed Forces Veteran's Badge and UK Merchant Seafarers Veteran's Badge are marks of our respect and gratitude.

I am delighted to announce that we are extending the eligibility to a new group of thoroughly deserving veterans. These men and women served in small wars and counter insurgencies; in conflicts that are perhaps less in the limelight today. Conflicts that saw bloody fighting from the jungles of Malaya, Borneo and Sarawak to the dusty plains and city of Aden at the tip of the Arabian Peninsula".


I personally was very pleased that you gave long overdue public recognition to the lesser known, but equally momentous conflicts of the 1950's and 1960's (in which many people paid the supreme sacrifice), and I believe many other Veterans will also share that sentiment. For that I thank you.

Having said this, I must ask, how you as the Armed Forces Minister can give such recognition to Veterans whilst unelected Civil Servants of the Honours and Decorations Committee have advised Her Majesty to refuse to let British Veterans wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia medal - given for that very service to which you refer - graciously awarded by the King and Government of Malaysia to show their respect and recognition of British Veterans who contributed to that Commonwealth country maintaining its freedom and integrity which it will celebrate the 50th anniversary next year.

You will note Mr Ingram that I used the term "British Veterans" who have been refused permission to wear the PJM. Comrades in Arms from Australia, New Zealand etc. who were alongside us in the Malayan Emergency and the Indonesian Confrontation, were instantly given permission to accept and wear this award by their respective Governments and Head of State, Her Majesty the Queen.

I believe this decision regarding British Veterans to be unfair, legally suspect in terms of our human rights to be treated equally, and offensive to a friendly Commonwealth country.

The "fount of all knowledge" regarding our fight, is at www.fight4thePJM.org should you wish to look into this further. Incidentally, a description which came from a Whitehall source not from Veterans.

We believe that the HD Committee are reviewing our case at this very moment, in light of the Petition to The Queen, and the Rebuttal Statement and Rebuttal Update. We are expecting a response by the "end of November". It has, and will not, cost this Government a penny as the Malaysian Government have kindly created the PJM, and are delivering it at their own expense, mainly through the Malaysian High Commission in London.

In light of your clear respect and apparent esteem for Veterans, I would urge that you consider carefully the claim, that this is an unfair decision, contrary to Human Rights and natural justice which has been made by an unelected and seemly unaccountable body and bring to bear what influence you can to put right this wrong.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Yours sincerely,

John Rushton,

(Address supplied)



Last edited by Semengo13 on Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:58 am; edited 4 times in total

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Pingat Kami - Hak Kami
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JohnI

I have to agree with you, I have always been extremely patriotic to Queen and Country, the former perhaps 51% from a high of 100%. My country, well that has gone to the dogs in the past few years since John Major took power followed rapidly by B Liars cronies. The latter especially so, I regard some as pond life.

If those that we are dealing with at the moment are regarded as Civil Servants then they should be brought before the courts under The Trades Description Act (!!). I was watching Bush (yesterday) bumble his way through his speech and likewise with Rumsfeld today but there is one thing in their favour that our Government cannot hold a candle to is the way they hold their veterans in the high esteem that they should be accustomed to.

Apart from Adam Ingrams piece yesterday I have not heard a word of praise from anyone in the MoD/FCO/CO/HD Committee towards Malayan/Malaysian Veterans, that in itself is scandalous to say the least. Don Touhig has come round to our way of thinking which is creditable but as for Keith/Brennan/Coney/Edge and some of their minions, absolutely zilch!

I quote from The Civil Service Code

'Impartiality' is acting solely according to the merits of the case............ and that Civil Servants are accountable to Ministers, who in turn are accountable to Parliament Watch this space!


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John
A brilliant letter. Succint and polite.
GerryL


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Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)
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