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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) Re: Cabinet Office Review
Kentsboro wrote:John, when did you request a review ? In the light of a reply I received from Neena Thandaseree on 3rd January 2007, I requested a review of the Cabinet Office's decision not to allow me a view of the letter signed by The Queen. I received a reply - see below on 9th January - but have heard nothing since.
How long did you have to wait before receiving your coppy of the letter to Sir Michael Lord MP ?
"Thank you for your Internal Review request dated 9 January. This is receiving attention.
Kind Regards,
Andrew Collingwood
FOI Team,
CabinetOffice
T: 020 72762473 F: 020 72762495
E: Andrew.collingwood@cabinet-office.x.gsi.gov.uk
The Cabinet Office computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes."
Thanks - Tony
Tony
I personally did not request a review, I understand that if you are questioning a letter from HMG it is the suits who call it a 'review', I could well be wrong on this, but after I asked HMG for a straightforward Yes/No regarding the Queen's signature, Andrew Collingwood suggested that I had asked for a review. I did not, all I was asking (again) was a straight forward answer to a very simple question. I mean SHE DID/DIDN'T !
I wrote to Sir Michael on the 10th January 07 and received his reply dated 11th January followed by Bren Guns reply on 24th Jan and again Sir Michael's on 29th which was received today Feb 2nd
I am also awaiting a reply under The Data Protection Act 1998 having given the scrotes 40 days under a Subject Access Request for information that they hold on me, this goes back to December 9th 2006
JohnC
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Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:59 pm |
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Kentsboro
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Hampshire
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) Cabinet Office Review
Thanks for that John - I didn't actually ask for a review either. I wrote a letter, was fobbed off with the dreaded "Exceptions to FOI 2000 (Section 37 et al)". I sent a reply to that letter, pointing out one or two glaring errors they had made - the next thing I heard was the email shown above, intimating that I required a review of their system. I did [/b]not, and I suspect this entire farce is nothing more than a rather pathetic delaying tactic - I shall nudge them again and clear one or two things up !
Tony
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Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:24 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) Re: Cabinet Office Review
Kentsboro wrote:Thanks for that John - I didn't actually ask for a review either. I wrote a letter, was fobbed off with the dreaded "Exceptions to FOI 2000 (Section 37 et al)". I sent a reply to that letter, pointing out one or two glaring errors they had made - the next thing I heard was the email shown above, intimating that I required a review of their system. I did [/b]not, and I suspect this entire farce is nothing more than a rather pathetic delaying tactic - I shall nudge them again and clear one or two things up !
Tony
Tony
You are right they are obfuscating their dilemma, that there can be no doubt.
Can you imagine in your service time the RSM/SWO/CPO standing by the side of you when in front of 'the old man' all those years ago and you refused to answer a straight forward YES/NO your feet would not touch the ground between the CO's office and the Glasshouse/Brig/Guardroom. The snag is that these people in Whitehall think they are answerable to no one, well if they think that consider something else because (tick tock) the hour and the day cometh.......!
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Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:35 pm |
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Kentsboro
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Hampshire
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) Cabinet Office Review
John - in view of what we have been speaking about, I have sent the following to Mr Andrew Collingwood :
Dear Mr Collingwood
In your email dated 10 January 2007, you imply that my letter to the Ceremonial Secretariat dated 4th January, in reply to Neena Thandasseri's letter FOI246724 was a request for an Internal Review. That is most definitely not the case. May I ask that you read the letter in question (copy attached). I think you will find no such request either implied or otherwise. The letter merely took issue with one or two statements made in the letter FOI1246724. It would help with my requests for answers to certain questions and issues if my communications were not wrongly interpreted. This type of delaying tactic does not help the situation.
I look forward to your reply.
Yours sincerely
Captain A J Davies
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Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:36 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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So as I do not help to bog them down with the same letter Tony, I will await your reply in due course. Does it not seem to everyone that none of them have any nous, I find that these people getting index linked pensions on an over inflated ego trip most disheartening to say the least
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Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:14 pm |
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Paul Alders
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 931
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) Geoffrey Robinson MP
Geoffrey,
Civil Servants are once again playing hide and seek with official papers so that British Veterans cannot get hold of the evidence they require to prove their case. These Civil Servants put every obstacle they can in the way of us Veterans to justify their refusal to omit that they got it wrong.
I on behalf of others require a copy of the Document that Her Majesty the Queen signed allowing us to accept the PJM medal but withheld permission to wear.
I believe you will find that Denis Brennan, Ceremonial Secretariat, Cabinet Office, 35 Great Smith Street, LONDON. SW1P 3BQ
Tel 020 7276 2777 has the document at the moment; this document was at one time in the hands of a Mr Ian Keith of the MoD.
It will be interesting to see what excuse they come up with when you an MP ask for a copy?
Many thanks for your time
Paul
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Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:59 am |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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I really cannot believe this, I asked did the Queen sign the No Wear Document or not YES or NO?
Three weeks ago I even involved my MP he appears to have been left out of the equation, anyway take a look at this letter that has just come in!
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Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:50 pm |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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John Cooper wrote:I really cannot believe this,
Don't you just love the clarity of the bit about matters having to be kept secret in order to ensure openness and frankness!
Wonderful stuff!
I am so relieved that we are not wasting taxpayers' money paying salaries to oafs and wasters who cannot see the intrinsic inanity of what they write!
Instead we are so fortunate as to be able to rely on people like this writer to protect our best interests - he deserves his wearable CBE cos he Can't speak Bl**dy English and has been promoted on the strength of that one, single, attribute.
Barry
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:04 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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So that I may send the gentleman in return something to ponder, how about you guys feeding me some ammunition, keep it printable though aye as I need a further reply from Mr James
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Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:15 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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This is my reply to Howell James OBE
Date:Thu, 8 Feb 2007 22:11:51 +0000 (GMT)From:"JOHN COOPER" Subject:Pingat Jasa MalaysiaTo:howell.james@cabinet-office.x.gsi.gov.uk
Mr Howell James OBE
Permanent Secretary
Government Communications
Cabinet Office
70 Whitehall
SW1A 2AS
Ref FOI 245648
Dear Mr James
Thank you for your letter of 6th February 2007
re the above reference
I cannot believe that a straight forward question can result in a disproportionate amount of documentation, time and expenditure. I asked this simple question: Did Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second sign a document preventing thousands of Malayan/Malaysian Veterans from wearing The Pingat Jasa Malaysia YES or NO?
One or more departments within the Civil Service including your department have in my own opinion obfuscated the original question to meet your own aims and ideals. I am challenging you and any other Civil Servant to produce a straightforward Yes or No as to whether Her Majesty signed a document barring Far Eastern Veterans from the UK from wearing the Pingat Jasa Malaysia.
I don't wish to know that the FCO/HDC/MoD bent over backwards in arranging Her Majesty to accept the medal, I don't wish to know any other 'around the houses' answers eg That wearing the medal will not be policed.
I do not think that any such document exists, I believe that 'a civil servant' has taken it upon him/herself to make this declaration on behalf of Her Majesty and that you in the Cabinet Office are hiding behind Section 37 of the FoIA to deliberately hide the truth.If you can prove to me otherwise then I unreservedly apologise but until I have this confirmation from you personally then I'm afraid someone is culpable of a great misdemeanour to Her Majesty The Queen and I shall hold this against you until proven otherwise.
I notice that Sir Michael Lord MP (Con. Central Suffolk) has been totally removed from your reply, he himself has doubts as to whether he could have sight of this document, I am copying Sir Michael in on this and any future correspondence.
I as a youngster was brought up to uphold the truth, for 67 years that has held me in good stead when I see a reply such as yours this is ignoring the question that I asked and supplying me instead with the answer to one I did not ask. What on earth does 'matters having to be kept secret in order to ensure openness and trust' mean and in view of recent events 'the importance of confidentiality in protecting the honours process' ...... really!
What too, does 'transmitted in the normal way' mean, The Queen signed the document Yes or No, there is absolutely nothing in between! For example did The Queen's Private Secretary sign this document?
I am writing this letter on a personal basis, in this instance I am not writing on behalf of any other group of people but are you aware of the support in both Houses of Parliament, are you aware of the worldwide support through this website http://www.fight4thepjm.org/ and hundreds of others, are you aware of the media support worldwide, are you aware of The Veterans Agency calling us veterans disaffected on a Government website and yet the Ministry of Defence categorically stating that the PJM Issue is nothing to do with them but is indeed an FCO issue, I would also point out that Mr Richard Coney(MoD) made a faux pas to me to this effect.
Mr James can you tell me how much support, both morally and legally, you have for Veterans not being able to wear the PJM, can you indeed put your hand on your heart and say that in memory of the 519 Service Personnel that never made it back to these shores that you do not support me in my quest for justice.
One last attempt Mr James, does HMG have in their possession a document signed by HM The Queen barring 35000 British Veterans from wearing The Pingat Jasa Malaysia? Yes or No?
Yours Sincerely
John Cooper
cc Sir Michael Lord MP
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Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:22 pm |
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Kentsboro
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Hampshire
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) Letter to Howell James OBE
If Mr James cannot see from this letter that you and many of us are totally fed up with his attitude John, then nothing will! I look forward longingly to his reply. The question now, no doubt, is how long will it take him to get his breath back, work out a suitable answer, and then put pen to paper ? Let's see him skirt around this one ! Nice one - Tony
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Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:42 pm |
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Semengo13
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 442
Location: York
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An absolute cracker John. I would love to see his face when he reads this.
This lot seem to have no conscience or as I have said before, they are desperate to find a way out of the mess they are in, of their own making.
Mr James, Yes or No !!!!
John
_________________ Pingat Kami - Hak Kami
651 Signal Troop,
Semengo Camp,
Kuching.
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Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:38 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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Perhaps we could get Ma'am MKII to say YES or NO where are you Rory Bremner?
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/25022007/323/british-fm-fooled-frank-talk-impressionist-report.html
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Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:45 am |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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This is one enigma that has bugged me, anyone want to continue to see if you can get anywhere ?
Did she sign YES/NO?
Did she view our Petition YES/NO?
The whole lot of them are like cornered rats.............they make me sick!
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Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:19 pm |
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