MB wrote:

Ref a letter,Sunday 15th Oct, on the NMBVA site asking why pre 1957 veterans were not awarded the Independence gong which was seemingly offered to our government by the new Malaysian Government..............


...................If, as has been suggested in today's emails, there is going to be a "queue" there can be only one precedence for what to do next. We PJMers will get our gong, to wear or not. Now we must fight for those who preceeded us and see that they get the recognition so much deserved.

Mike Barton.

Mike

I can understand some of the feelings 'doing the rounds', I have pals that did their bit pre 57. There are many noble causes to fight, like this one we are fighting right now which is to get the suits to reverse their decision on the Right to Wear the PJM, one step at a time aye


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George F wrote:

We veterans on this forum only ask HMG for that same privledge to wear the PJM.

I agree with all you say, George.

I can understand the confusion over other medals and other campaigns, and you point to one example of hypocrisy that only adds to that confusion.

For those who are concerned about this confusion, they should read the PJM Eligibility Terms - that document, at least, is crystal clear as to the reasons the Malaysians have issued the PJM and the criteria that apply to applications. It can be read at http://www.fight4thepjm.org/documents/PJM_eligibility_terms.rtf.

But at the end of the day Fight4thePJM is only about seeking permission to wear the PJM alongside the rest of the Commonwealth who already have that permission. That is our only aim. We do not have any other agenda.


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

George F wrote:

Correct Barry, the PJM non wearing issue is the one and only agenda for this forum. To involve any other would not only complicate matters but would cause disunity amongst the veterans.

Geroge, I hope every visitor to this web site reads your message and the words of wisdom it contains.


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

Well said George.
The KOSB's who received their PJM's recently in Kuala Lumpur stood side by side with other comrades who didn't qualify for the award. There was no animosity whatsoever. Each congratulated the other with handshakes and arms round shoulders. Those who didn't qualify were as delighted for their comrades to get this award as those recipients themselves. THAT IS FACT. Just want to make a point to the "Men In Black" who are viewing this site that they need not get excited thinking that there is any dissention in the ranks. Far from it.

petenic wrote:

Well said George.
The KOSB's who received their PJM's recently in Kuala Lumpur stood side by side with other comrades who didn't qualify for the award. There was no animosity whatsoever. Each congratulated the other with handshakes and arms round shoulders. Those who didn't qualify were as delighted for their comrades to get this award as those recipients themselves. THAT IS FACT. Just want to make a point to the "Men In Black" who are viewing this site that they need not get excited thinking that there is any dissention in the ranks. Far from it.

Well said Pete!

I wear my PJM to honour those that can't, what gets me is that on Remembrance Day when all the suits will be assembled in Whitehall THEY are snubbing our colleagues who ought to be remembered on THEIR day

These people in Whitehall make my blood boil

Lest we forget...............


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gday im as mad as hell at the suits over this,and they are the butt of many jokes in my local rsl,and if this is not reversed im going to keep plugging away on my keyboard untile i cross the bar,ive nothing better to do ha ha

Absolutley John,
Wear it with pride for those that came home and for those that didn't.
I thought it might be interesting to note that the service that was held at the Cheras Cemetery for three of the 'lost' KOSB's, including the spreading of Drew Pennman's ashes, was attended by Col. Paul Edwards and Phil Owen from the BHC here in KL. No sign of Mr. McLeary or Mr. Moody although they were present at another rememberance service for I think the Welsh lads at the same location about three weeks earlier. I found their absence most distatsteful and it reinforced my personal view that Mr. Mcleary was only present at the civic reception for the KOSB's the previous day as he knew leading Malaysian Government representatives would be there. They were obviously aware of the rememberance service as they had the two aforementioned gents from the Defence side of the High Comm in attendance.

As our American cousins would say "Absolutely no class whatsoever"!


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...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

Attached is a scan of the letter which came today. I don't recognize the name, but the letterhead has Chris Edge's email address.


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Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)

GerryL wrote:

Attached is a scan of the letter which came today. I don't recognize the name, but the letterhead has Chris Edge's email address

It's the only 'hart' you'll find in the FCO!

Only kidding Chris ...

I think.


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

I've got one too Gerry from Mr Hart.
Exact copy, word for word.
Mass producing replies now !




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Pingat Kami - Hak Kami
651 Signal Troop,
Semengo Camp,
Kuching.

Who was it once said (probably me!) that everyone should have a Civil Servant, the snag is it sounds like we all have!


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Hasn't Sir Michael Jay been replaced by Sir(?) Peter Ricketts


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John Cooper wrote:

Hasn't Sir Michael Jay been replaced by Sir(?) Peter Ricketts

George, JohnC, Thanks for the timely reminder.

The address list has been updated and can be accessed from the page George referred to: http://www.fight4thepjm.org/lobby_hd_addresses.htm.

If you would like more addresses, go to: http://www.fight4thepjm.org/lobby_snailmail.htm and download the main snail mail addresses (with a few email addresses for good measure!).


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

George F wrote:

To acheive their chicanery the doublemedaling rule (only used for Uniformed personnel) is switched from MOD medal rule book to FCO medal rule book, so as to harden the case and prevent civilian veterans from wearing the PJM medal.

George,

This is the crux of the matter.

The Cabinet Office have stated that the only issues discussed by the HD Committee were those referred to in the Ministerial Statement. In that Statement they refer to two issues - the 5-year and double medal rules. But only half-heartedly. The Double medal rule was, as you say, introduced retrospectively to shore up the discredited and never-used 5-year rule.

I do not believe the HD Committee were involved in this initial 'chicanery'. Their job is to consider the medal request as put to them by whichever is the lead Department, in the case of the PJM, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (as Rear Admiral Wilkinson says in his letter to you).

The MoD, via Richard Coney and his civil servant bosses (Ian Keith's predecessor had done a runner and so poor old Richard was lumbered with all this), arranged for the double medal rule to be inserted into the equation. Then in November 2005 the FCO surreptitiously inserted the rule into a new set of Foreign Decorations Rules which were then handed to the HD Committee together with the PJM proposition. The HD Committee had the previously manipulated info and rules to consider in the December 2005.

The HD Committee were misled and had insufficient information handed to them and, as a result, they applied inappropriate rules retrospectively. That is the basis of our initial Rebuttal - the Ministerial Statement is flawed and, consequently, so is the withholding of formal permission to wear the PJM.

We have then produced a considerable amount of information rebutting even the half-hearted application of 'rules' (half-hearted - they were only applied retrospectively to prevent the PJM being worn … not to reject the medal which was an option open to the HD Committee).

The Statement should be amended and British citizens should be given permission to wear their medal. Anything short of that compounds the error.

Barry


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia