...........has been informed in the last 6 months that

1> He can't wear a medal that a Foreign Government has awarded him (The Queen)

a> He really can but it won't be policed! (Numerous QUANGOs)
b> He really wants to wear it OFFICIALLY but can't! (The Queen)

2> The PJM has been downgraded to a mere SOUVENIR or KEEPSAKE, he is not a HAPPY BUNNY with that remark (Mr Richard Coney, MoD)

3> There is no appeal (Richard Coney MoD & Neena Thandasseri Cabinet Office)

4> I have no statutory rights (Richard Coney MoD)

5> The Royal Prerogative has been used against me (Neena Thandasseri Cabinet Office)

6> I have been victimised where my Commonwealth Cousins are concerned

There may well be others that I will have to look up on my documents from HMG, I wonder what my rights are as a Human Being if I committed Murder, If I burnt the Union Flag, If I sold my passport or was an illegal immigrant or was a terrorist, you can bet your SWEET BIPPY that I would have rights there but not if I want to WEAR A FOREIGN MEDAL, you just could not write a script like that

John Cooper
Born a Citizen of The UK, Served HM The Queen for 12 years and my country and for so doing get kicked in the Rowlocks!


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This is very interesting but does it not refer to the US of A, where the President is a crap cowboy, says the biggest crap cowboy in the UK Parliament. We in the UK have common law and legislative law. In each case, it make rules and regulations for citizens of our country to act by and gives punishment for failing to comply with them.

A Muslim girl, of about 15 years, took her school (the government) to the Court of Human rights because she was not allowed to wear clothes representing her religion, albeit that other Muslim students were permitted to wear such clothes to school but she maintained that she wanted to wear a particuilar set of clothes which was not covered by the rules. The school catered for Muslim students and insisted she wear the clothes allowed which did not offend her religion. She won her case and was awarded £100,000 pounds sterling. What is 35,000 x £100,000?

It is my opinion this is a 'case stated' in regard to civilians in the UK wearing what they feel entitled to wear with the establishment, or the Queen, being unable to prevent it and any act by anyone against civilians ie. you cannot wear the PJM without permission, and permission has not been granted, is a breach of our basic rights. We can walk down the street in an Indian Headdress with eagle feathers if we wish and as long as we are not breaking any of our laws then no-one can touch us. It is even allowed for men to cross-dress and wear female clothing, but us citizens who served our Queen and our country we are prevented from wearing an honourable medal in a discriminatory and shameless decision by someone unknown at this time.

The rules on Foreign and Commonwealth Awards were recently changed illegally to include British Citizens and as such have no legal foundation whatsoever. From what I can adduce non-statutory means 'non-written law' and therefore, citizens are not obliged to comply.

Knowing that they have been acting in an unlawful manner the establishment are now playing the Royal Prerogative card in that you can wear the PJM if you like without authority but the Queen used her Royal Prerogative to say that the medal is a souvenir or keepsake, and see what you can do about that. Well bring em on, I say.

OK you guys, this is from Hansard so is Crown Copyright acknowledging its existence but ask WHERE are the rules,when were they made, by whom ORIGINALLY

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24 Nov 2005 : Column 2244W—continued

Foreign Decorations
Dr. Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the criteria are for allowing (a) current and (b) former service personnel to (i) accept and (ii) wear medals offered by foreign governments in respect of past campaigns. [30618]

Mr. Straw [holding answer 21 November 2005]: The criteria for considering whether foreign awards and decorations may be accepted and worn are contained in the Rules Governing the Accepting and Wearing of Foreign Orders, Decorations and Medals by Citizens of the United Kingdom and Her Overseas Territories. I set out as follows the Rules and will place copies in the Library of the House. In addition, the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals is currently considering a paper from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office relating to a review of the rules.
Rules governing the acceptance and wearing of Foreign Orders, Decorations and Medals by citizens of the United Kingdom and her overseas territories

These rules set out the circumstances under which a citizen of the United Kingdom or her overseas territories ("UK citizen") may be granted The Sovereign's permission to accept and wear an Order, Decoration or Medal ("foreign award") conferred by a Head of State or Government of a foreign country. Head of Government of a Commonwealth country of which The Sovereign is not Head of State and certain international organisations (collectively referred to as "foreign state").

Principles

1. No UK citizen 1 may accept and wear a foreign award without the Sovereign's permission. Such permission must be sought as soon as there is an indication that an award may be offered.


2. The granting of permission for a UK citizen to accept an award offered by a foreign state will only be considered if the award recognises specified services rendered to the interests of that foreign state.


3. Permission will not be given for UK citizens to accept a foreign award if they have received, or are expected to receive, a UK award for the same services.


4. Acceptance of a foreign award does not mean that the UK will make a reciprocal offer directly or indirectly associated with the UK recipient


Permission

5. Permission to wear a foreign award, if granted, will be either:


unrestricted—allowing the award to be worn on any occasion, or


restricted—allowing the award to be worn only on particular occasions associated with the foreign state that conferred it.


6. The grant of permission, whether unrestricted or restricted, will be conveyed by letter to the UK citizen concerned from the Sovereign's Private Secretary.


Application

7. A foreign state wishing to confer an award on a UK citizen is expected to ascertain—through its Diplomatic Representative at The Court of St. James's—whether



24 Nov 2005 : Column 2245W


permission to accept an award would be likely to be given. Such requests for clearance will only be entertained in respect of awards given by Heads of State or Governments recognised as such by the Sovereign.


8. Requests made by certain international organisations (e.g. the United Nations and NATO) in respect of service in operations under their auspices should be made to the Defence Services Secretary in the Ministry of Defence.


9. Requests made in respect of services rendered more than five years previously, or in connection with events in the distant past (e.g. commemorative awards), will not be entertained.


10. Requests for clearance meeting the requirement of these regulations will be submitted to The Sovereign for consideration by the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs—who will be under no obligation to make such a submission if the application has not been made as indicated in paragraphs 7 and 8 above.


11. Requests for clearance in the case of foreign awards conferred by private societies or institutions will not be granted.


Guidelines

12. Each request will be treated on a case by case basis. The fact that a similar application has been approved in the past should not be taken as implying that permission will be granted.

13. The grant of unrestricted permission will be considered in the case of foreign awards conferred for services:


related to the saving or attempting to save life 2 ;


by any member of the UK Armed Forces or other UK official on exchange, attachment or loan to a foreign state who is involved in a military operation or an emergency 3 on behalf of that country, state or organisation;


by any member of the UK Armed Forces serving in a UK Unit within a bi-lateral force under the command of the other country who renders especial service to the country's forces in a military operation or emergency; or


in military operations under the auspices of an international organisation (e.g. the United Nations).


14. The grant of restricted permission will be considered in the case of foreign awards conferred:


on the occasion of and in connection with a State or official visit by a Head of State or Government of a foreign or Commonwealth country;


in connection with a State visit by the Sovereign; or


to members of Special Missions when The Sovereign is represented at a coronation, wedding or funeral or other similar occasion: or on any Diplomatic Representative when specially accredited to represent The Sovereign on such occasions.


15. Other than in circumstances described in paragraphs 13 and 14 above, permission, unrestricted or restricted, will not be granted to 5 :


Crown servants generally,


in particular, to Heads or other members of HM Diplomatic or Consular establishments abroad when leaving their posts—whether on transfer or on final retirement; and


senior officials, military and civilian, visiting foreign states.


16. No permission is needed for the acceptance of any foreign award if it is designed not to be worn.


1 This includes British subjects and British-protected persons (BPPs). BPPs may accept awards conferred by their Rulers.


2 Including medals issued by life saving societies and institutions (but these must be worn on the right breast).


3 It will be for the UK to decide if the operations or emergency is of the standard to fall within this criterion.


4 This does not apply to his or her staff.


5 This guidance normally applies equally to the spouses or partners of Crown servants.



24 Nov 2005 : Column 2246W



Dr. Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is on ex-service personnel (a) receiving and (b) wearing the campaign medal being offered by the Government of Malaysia. [30619]

Mr. Straw [holding answer 21 November 2005]: The offer by the Government of Malaysia to present the Pingat Jasa Malaysia medal, a commemorative rather than a campaign medal, is being considered by the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals under the Government's rules governing the accepting and wearing of Foreign Awards, Decorations and Medals by British citizens. The Committee is also reviewing these rules.


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Just another thought -

Neena Thandasseri, Policy Officer at the Cabinet Office said in a recent letter 'decisions on the acceptance and wear (of medals) are non-statutory. This specifically relates to the decisions taken by Her Majesty the Queen under the Royal Prerogative. There is no right of appeal'.

So not only do the Honours and Decorations Committee act in secret and report only to Her Majesty the Queen, any decisions/recommendations they make are non-statutory (not written law) and cannot apply to civilians. Of course, the non-statutory thingies could apply to those in the Service of the Crown. It looks like the halfwits have got it all mixed up and do not know their non-statutory from their statutory powers and have made a complete horses arse of the whole thing. Lets hope that there is someone amongst them who has the sense to stop digging and realise they are in a big hole.

mcdangle wrote:

.............and have made a complete horses arse of the whole thing.

Andy

That really has to be THE quote of this campaign, Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!


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I wonder what EXCLUDED OLDER PEOPLE means here (half way down) by Neena Thandasseri when she/he worked until recently at The Office of The Deputy Prime Minister, anyone want to take up the challenge........

http://www.socialexclusion.gov.uk/page.asp?id=623


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24 Nov 2005 : Column 2244W—continued

Foreign Decorations
[/quote]

$64,000 question to all. What law do the Foreign Decorations rules John put up come under?

No1) Statutory Law.
or
No2) Non-Statutory law.

George F[/quote]


Take your Pick, George as Bernard Miles used to say, neither of their buckets hold water as they leak like sieves!


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Statutory Law would be a law that has been passed through OUR Parliament and put on to the statutes (legislation). Normally. I think, it has two readings in Parliament and then is passed to the Queen for Royal assent which then makes it law.

Non-statutory law is a misnomer and should read Common Law which has been adapted through time immemorial (longer than anyone can remember).

So the paper clip hangers are suggesting that decisions taken by the Honours and Decorations Committee are based on non-statutory ie. Common Law which has been used through time immemorial. I hardly think that includes Foreign and Commonwealth Awards, Decorations, or Medals, so have a think again chaps and come up with a better one.

The Foreign and Commonwealth Orders, Regulations 1969 which do not mention double medaling, and separates Crown Servants from Non Crown Servants, and shows with non Crown Servants (Citizens) that the Queen can only 'wish' them not to wear medals without her permission, have not been amended. The rules quoted by by Baroness Symonds, and those placed in the house library by Jack Straw, are not rules, but papers only issued for the information of ministers. Hence the reason they are changing to no law but Royal Prerogative.

It would appear to me that they are fast running out of excuses and will have to face facts some day soon.

From 'The Not So Nice Guy!' to.....................

Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:17:48 +0100 (BST)
From: "JOHN COOPER"
Subject: Still working on the rebuttal chaps?
To: chris.edge@fco.gov.uk, Ian.Keith798@mod.uk, Caron.Mason-Mahon@fco.gov.uk, Richard.Coney506@mod.uk, eleri.pengelly@cabinet-office.x.gsi.gov.uk, denis.brennan@cabinet-office.x.gsi.gov.uk

Good day all

Reference The Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal

I guess you must have passed the first sentence of The Rebuttal by now, is there anything I can help you with that you do not understand, a. comes before b. which comes before c. and so on.

Lord Whitty made a comment on Tuesday re Pre '57 and Post 57 that is reported in Hansard and that Lord Triesman referred to Independence Day in Malaya/Malaysia as January 31st 1957, sorry lads and lasses the date was Merdeka Day August 31st 1957, I think someone is getting their wires crossed with The FCO Statement date by Rt Hon Ian Pearson MP that was January 31st 2006.

The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester performed the lowering of The Union Flag on behalf of Her Majesty, I have the photographs of the event. If there is anything you would like to know about the Malayan Emergency if you would like to ask I will find the answers for you.

Did you know that 519 Servicemen never made it back to these shores, that 12 of my fellow 205 Squadron pals never made it back either, did you know how Ivor John Gillett was posthumously awarded the George Cross for his unselfish bravery.

Do you know what Berries or Roots to eat when in the Jungle, do you know what type of water snakes are dangerous to humans and how leeches that cling to your legs and arms are removed and how the sweat drips off the human body in temperatures in excess of 90 degrees Fahrenheit, the smell of machine gun fire the hard compo rations, what sleeping under the stars mean. All for a mere pittance as most of those Squaddies were National Servicemen conscripted to do a job on behalf of a Queen and Government you represent.

Well when you guys leave off work in a short while spare a thought for those Squaddies that defended 'the faith', this weekend reflect on what a lot of us are doing to remember these people, spare a thought for some of their families and in the name of God and what is right give us the same chance as our cousins in Austarlia and New Zealand who have that unrestricted right to wear the PJM in honour of their names.

John Cooper


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