Veterans must make medal trip

Jul 21 2006

By Gareth Deighan, The Evening Chronicle

Scores of North East war veterans have been told they will have to travel to London to pick up a medal they are forbidden to wear.

The heroes of the Malaya-Borneo conflict were awarded the Pingat Jasa Malaysia by the Malaysian government more than a year ago.

But because the British Government has not become involved in the awarding of the medals, they will have to pay to travel to the Malaysian High Commission in London to pick them up.

Gordon King, 72, of Longbenton, is one of 40 veterans in the North East who fought in the conflict. Since being awarded the medal he has been campaigning for the right to wear it at official ceremonies.

Mr King, who served in the Royal Engineers between 1962 and 1966 said: "I think sometimes that we are the forgotten army. But people should remember that people died in the conflict.

"We are all getting on in age now and going to London isn't practical for some of us.


"I find it difficult to believe we will have to travel, at our own expense, to get to London to get a thank you medal that we can't even wear."


On Wednesday this week 40 veterans of the conflict were given the medals at a special ceremony in the country's High Commission in London with the Malaysian deputy prime minister in attendance.


Barry Fleming, who is running the veterans' campaign to get the medals officially recognised on a national level, was at the presentation.


He said: "It was a lovely ceremony and we were very grateful the Malaysian deputy prime minister was there but the fact we all had to travel to London to collect them was ridiculous.


"Plus, we are still not allowed to wear the medals in official ceremonies so what it the point?


"In other Commonwealth countries their defence departments have worked with Malaysia to distribute the medals but not here and that is our problem."


A spokesman for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office said how the medals were distributed was a matter for the Malaysian government.

=================================

To which I have today responded with the following Letter to the Editor:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Gareth Deighan's article entitled "Banned from wearing medals" leaves me with a feeling of overweening sadness.

How terribly sad it is that the British Government's, unfathomably mean spirited, refusal to permit Malaya / Borneo veterans the right to wear the medal, bestowed upon them by a grateful Malaysian nation, denies veterans, such as Gordon King, of a tiny bit of pride in their declining years.

This shocking revelation inspires the following questions...

Precisely what deleterious effect could the accepting and wearing of the PJM have upon the integrity of the Imperial Honours System and what possible harm can result from permitting elderly veterans the unrestricted right to wear their medal with justifiable pride?

We...all of us, should be absolutely delighted to see British veterans thus honoured by a grateful foreign nation...and what an incredible shame that their own nation refuses to accord them similar honour and respect.

The mind positively boggles at such a shameful exhibition of myopic, bureaucratic insensitivity.


John 'Jock' Fenton
(ex-Royal Corps of Signals & 17th Gurkha Division)


_________________
...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

'Jock' Fenton wrote:

Barry Fleming, who is running the veterans' campaign to get the medals officially recognised on a national level, was at the presentation.

He said: "It was a lovely ceremony and we were very grateful the Malaysian deputy prime minister was there but the fact we all had to travel to London to collect them was ridiculous."

No, I didn't. I told him I was honoured and privileged to be there - but I just had to drive in to London. It was grim that others should have to travel long distances 'just to collect the medal'.

Never mind, the point is that the civil servants in the MoD and FCO are treating the PJM and those eligible for it with contempt - to the point where they will not help out with the distribution and have dumped on the Malaysians yet again - despite the original Malaysian request for MoD co-operation.

Barry

PS Here's the original text copyright the Newcastle Evening Chronicle 21/7/2006:







_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

BarryF wrote:

Never mind, the point is that the civil servants in the MoD and FCO are treating the PJM and those eligible for it with contempt - to the point where they will not help out with the distribution and have dumped on the Malaysians yet again - despite the original Malaysian request for MoD co-operation.

Is this what the Queen intended? ... ... That these suits sitting at civil service desks can treat us with so much contempt (and relishing every minute of it by all accounts) because of the order she has been given (by them) using a script written by them (by them).

I was with the Commonwealth lot and my mates can wear their medal as ordered by the Queen. What kind of world do these faceless, chinless, wonders live in when they ordain that I am a second class citizen compared to my Aussie and Kiwi mates (whose medals were sent out engraved and by safe recorded delivery). We fought togbet6her and we'll bloody well wear our medals together. With the Queen's permission!

It's just not right and I'm now in for this fight as well. Count me in. I'll do anything, for as long as it takes, to get justice.



Last edited by B Bateson on Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:46 am; edited 1 time in total

Count me in too, squire. I had no idea those civil servants had stooped to those depths. And if there is a fighting fund, let me know.

Dave Edwards wrote:

Count me in too, squire. I had no idea those civil servants had stooped to those depths. And if there is a fighting fund, let me know.

Me again. Many people I know can't afford the round trip with hotels for those from Scotland, or aren't fit enough. What do they do? I hope the Queen gets to know what's happening in her name.

Quote:

Dave Edwards wrote:
Many people I know can't afford the round trip with hotels for those from Scotland, or aren't fit enough. What do they do? I hope the Queen gets to know

.....couldn't agree more Dave....but spare a thought for those of us who live in CANADA...try affording a round trip Toronto - London...with a stay over at a London Hotel....Wonder if HM might offer me the back bedroom at Buck House for a couple of nights?....always provided me with luxurious accommodation while I was wearing her uniform!


_________________
...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

P Bateson wrote:

BarryF wrote:

Never mind, the point is that the civil servants in the MoD and FCO are treating the PJM and those eligible for it with contempt - to the point where they will not help out with the distribution and have dumped on the Malaysians yet again - despite the original Malaysian request for MoD co-operation.

Is this what the Queen intended? ... ... That these suits sitting at civil service desks can treat us with so much contempt (and relishing every minute of it by all accounts) because of the order she has been given (by them) using a script written by them (by them).

I was with the Commonwealth lot and my mates can wear their medal as ordered by the Queen. What kind of world do these faceless, chinless, wonders live in when they ordain that I am a second class citizen compared to my Aussie and Kiwi mates (whose medals were sent out engraved and by safe recorded delivery). We fought togbet6her and we'll bloody well wear our medals together. With the Queen's permission!

It's just not right and I'm now in for this fight as well. Count me in. I'll do anything, for as long as it takes, to get justice.

Pete

Pete and Dave

Welcome to the forum both of you

What really jars me off is 'how caring' The Veterans Agency appear to be on their own website but when it comes to the crunch they really could not give a toss. If the Vets Agency and The MoD are having nothing to do with a foreign medal, how come the FCO get involved, interferring bankers as they are, how can anyone make a simple decision so damned difficult!


_________________
--------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Dave,
Many thanks for your comments and support.

It is very difficult to get information through direct to Ministers because civil servants open all the mail and only put through what they think should go through. To by pass this write to your MP it has to be answered if you are polite. If you are not polite THEY the civil servants will use it as an excuss not to reply.

Also to get information to HM the Queen is also difficult because of the amount of mail that is received. 4 people do nothing else all day at Buckingham Palace but open letters. The Queen selects a few envelopes to open herself so to stand a chance make your envelope stand out and keep your letter short and to the point.

Hope the above helps everone who wants to support the right to wear our PJM.

looking from affar(melbourne)this whole sorry saga would have filled an hillerious half hour of YES MINISTER,these pratts in london shouldent be in charge of their own breathing,please dont engourage them to migrate,keep them,what a bunch of tosspots,sad part is they think they are advancing THEIR agenda .
william the glad to be over here

I agree with you willhastie. I am also located in Melbourne and am appalled at the actions of the civil servants and members of the Honours Directorate. I am now very glad I have dual nationality since I became an Australian citizen about 3 years ago. I therefore have permission of the Queen of Australia to wear the medal without restriction. One of the medalling civil servants in London confirmed that I could wear the medal in Australia but would not be allowed to wear it it the UK despite my dual nationality. No wonder Australia and New Zealand have left the Imperial honours system behind. ( it also makes one wish for a republic as much as I admire the Queen) Since the British Government is making no effort to distribute the medals on behalf of the veterans I hope my medal is not made for collection in London, even the High Commission in Canberra is a plane ride away.

Hamish
Borneo Veteran ex British Army

The Honours and Decorations Committee are authorised by the government but their brief does not include making rules or orders against the Citizens of Britain because they are not LEGALLY entitled to do so.
The rules on the accepting and wearing of foreign awards have not, as far as I am aware, been passed through our parliament and made into law, so they cannot quote these rules to the citizens of our country. I even doubt if they could LEGALLY quote a non-wearing rule to a British subject with dual nationality whilst in the UK! They are rules for guidance of the HD Committee and anyone else who wants to jump on the bandwagon, but they are not LEGAL. So the HD Committee is not representative of the British people and they act illegally if they interfere with our right to freedom under the law.
So now we come to the Royal Prerogative which they are hiding behind. I do not believe the Queen knowingly made an order that British Citizens could not wear the PJM and if my suspicions are correct then the HD Committee have again acted unlawfully. If they convinced Her Majesty to make this order by deliberately supplying her with false information then they have been disrespectful to our Sovereign. If Her Majesty issued this order of non-wearing then surely it must be put to our Parliament and made a law in the normal manner, not just an edict from an illegal committee. Most of us are law abiding citizens and if our Queen issues a Command then we will obey it but at the present time no-one will tell us who issued the non-wearing rule order but it did come originally from an unlawful committee so how do they expect us to obey it.
We started this fight to ask them to change this shameful and spiteful order made against ordinary men and women whose only fault was that they fought and suffered for their Queen and Country but we have stumbled upon the fact that our government has lost sight of our democratic rights by allowing an unlawful committee to make orders against us. Her Majesty at her coronation took an oath to rule us with justice and mercy, well she now knows that we are suffering at the hands of spiteful civil servants who make this non-wearing order for no reason other than 'they can do what they please' and not for any substantial reason as all their excuses have been blown apart. The day of the civil servant is drawing to a close and as a politician once said 'the winds of change are blowing'.

To further add to the rumour, speculation and innuendo surrounding the (as yet undisclosed) timetable for the distribution of PJM's...let me entertain you with a little mathematical exercise.

Facts:....Currently known number of applications sent to MHC = 6000.
.............Number of medals issued at recent (July 19th) presentation ceremony in Belgrave Square = 40
.............Number of presentation ceremonies planned per annum = Unknown

Letting P = (Unknown) number of years necessary to complete presentations.
.....and J = Number of eligible recipients.
....and M = Number of medal presentation ceremonies performed per annum

utilising the simple formula P = J ÷ M
P (years) = unknown:
J (eligible) = 6000:
M (presented) = 40

Solving for 'unknown' 'P'
......at the rate of 1 (40 man) presentation per annum we find:

P = 6000 ÷ 40
= 150 Years

.....at the rate of 12 (40 man) presentations per annum we find:

P = 6000 ÷ (40 X 12)
= 12.5 Years

Alternatively, solving for M = 1, using above figures:

40M = J X P
M = 6000 ÷ 40
M = 150
or.....in order to issue 6000 medals within 1 year it would require 150 (40 man) medal ceremonies .

Let me further point out that the 6000 figure represents an unknown variable, which is, presumably, increasing daily!

My advice is to be patient!


_________________
...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

Was you a Civil Servant in another life.

Paul....that's fighting talk where I come from!


_________________
...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

[quote="'Jock' Fenton"]Paul....that's fighting talk where I come from![/quote]

Yes I know it is, but You've Moved.