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First British PJMs to be presented on the 19th July
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John, yes you are right, they are keeping very much to the government line. But of course, I cannot speak for them, all my views are mine alone!

John

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George, I fully concur with your sentiments but I had to remove my 'challenge' to the RBL as it was not proper of me to do so however a reply had already been posted before I could edit the posting so it is there for anyone to see now.

I do believe that hypocracy is the correct term when dealing with the RBL's continuing support of commemorative medals through such as Award Productions although as you rightly say they (Award) cannot be blamed in any way. I note that a replica of the PJM is now offered for sale by them so all those who are entitled but will have to wait for many many months to come for their medals to arrive can avail themselves of the 'gong' in the meantime. Plus of course 10% of sales will go to the MBVA which is good news.

Barry Fleming is still beavering away in the background on our behalfs and for this reason I hope that he is one of the first to get his so I pray that an invitation is winging it's way to him from the Malaysian High Commission.

As ever, my regards to you all
John

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I'm not sure what will happen to us ex- pats. If we have to wait until the PJM is redirected from the UK who knows when we may get it. Perhaps it may come direct from the Malaysian government, although I can understand if there is some confusion with applications coming from the UK with overseas addresses. Hopefully it will not be a problem seeing as the MOD are not involved, thank god.

Ivor Rich ex RN Malay/Borneo veteran

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IvorJ wrote:
I'm not sure what will happen to us ex- pats. If we have to wait until the PJM is redirected from the UK who knows when we may get it. Perhaps it may come direct from the Malaysian government, although I can understand if there is some confusion with applications coming from the UK with overseas addresses. Hopefully it will not be a problem seeing as the MOD are not involved, thank god.


Ivor - you've raised some important issues.

The British have washed their hands of the PJM and so, as I understand it, medals have to be collected from the MHC in London, would you believe. That way, the MoD can't be accused of making veterans pay teh postage (one of our accusations) ... they just have to pay for a return flight from Perth, or Ontario, Wellington, or Edinburgh!

If medals are collected by the Association that submitted the appln form, then they will have to pay they postage (i.e. you, the medal earner via your subs ... subbed in turn by those who are not entitled the PJM) ... and perhaps ask for a refund from you.

In Oz, medals were sent with respect they deserve - by recorded delivery at the Government's expense.

Does all this make you even more miffed? I thought as much ....

All the best,

Barry


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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jireland wrote:
George, I fully concur with your sentiments but I had to remove my 'challenge' to the RBL as it was not proper of me to do so however a reply had already been posted before I could edit the posting so it is there for anyone to see now.


As ever, my regards to you all
John


John (Ireland)

That quote has been sorted Wink

Barry...............is that for definite that the PJMs have to be collected (personally) by the recipient or organisation if that is the case I can't see many takers, is this another ploy by HMG.

I don't expect anyone else to pay the postage except myself, why on earth can't we get something right in this country for once Shocked


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John Cooper wrote:
Barry...............is that for definite that the PJMs have to be collected (personally) by the recipient or organisation if that is the case I can't see many takers, is this another ploy by HMG.

I don't expect anyone else to pay the postage except myself, why on earth can't we get something right in this country for once Shocked


John,

I was told two days ago by a reliable source that "medals will have to be collected". I have no further info.

One possibility is that this is a Malaysian requirement ... they do not have individual addresses. Maybe they hope the Associations will collect them and then mail them.

But one thing is for sure ... this Government of ours isn't planning to do it. Yet. But I'm working on that ... I believe they have a responsibility having 'accepted' the medal. If they didn't want that responsibility, they should have rejected the medal request in the first place. They tried a mean-minded compromise that has failed and is discredited, and we have to pick up the tab!

Barry


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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George F wrote:
Barry, the names and addresses of all recipients are on the application forms which were delivered from the MOD to the MHC.


Thanks, George.

I had heard that Associations or the MoD were forwarding consolidated lists, i,e, without addresses, and that the original forms had been destroyed. Some papers within the checking process have definitely been zapped.

Barry


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Below a copy of the e-mail and reply to Michael
John

I will continue to press.

M


>From: "John Ireland" <jri2272@btconnect.com>
>To: "Michael Ancram" <mancram@hotmail.com>
>CC: "Agent Devizes Constituency Conservative Association Ian Ramsey"
><ianramsey@devizesconservatives.org.uk>, "James Gray"
><jamesgraymp@parliament.uk>, <barry@fight4thepjm.org>
>Subject: The Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal
>Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 21:37:07 +0100
>
>Dear Michael, just to keep you in the picture, the first recipients of
>the PJM will be presented with their Medals at the Malaysian High
>Commission in London on Wednesday the 19th. July by the High Commissioner.
>
>Will the media be there to record this historic event? Will the
>present government continue to snub this award given by a friendly
>Muslim country and member of the Commonwealth? or will they finally
>recognise the honour that is being bestowed on these service men and
>women by a thankful Malaysian King and people. More to the point, when
>will the Conservatives finally accept that the governments approach to
>this is totally wrong and has been proven to be.
>
>Regards
>John
>( A recipient of the PJM )


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George, I think that you are being unfair here and believe me, no political conspiracy exists nor has it ever in relation to this award.

Michael has been very onside ever since he was acquinted with the true facts and I suspect that this is the same as most other MP's as will be seen from the turnaround we are witnessing over this. I sat down with Michael and between me and his agent, Ian Ramsey a retired Sqn Ldr, we told Michael the facts of life in relation to medallic awards etc. He was genuinely surprised as he told us that he had supported it being issued but never for one moment thought that the MOD's position would be wrong. As Barry has rightly said before and I reiterate it here, those members who gave any opinion followed the advice of certain civil servants who they believed knew what they were talking about. Michael now knows differently and is pushing our case.

People can think what they will on political lines but the Conservative Party for all it's faults has not used this as a political football and nor would it. I would not be so sure of the other two main parties though!!! In any case, I did not believe that we would ever get involved in political argument and I will decline from so doing, 'nough said.

John
A true blue Tory

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jireland wrote:
Michael has been very onside ever since he was acquinted with the true facts and I suspect that this is the same as most other MP's as will be seen from the turnaround we are witnessing over this. I sat down with Michael and between me and his agent, Ian Ramsey a retired Sqn Ldr, we told Michael the facts of life in relation to medallic awards etc. He was genuinely surprised as he told us that he had supported it being issued but never for one moment thought that the MOD's position would be wrong. As Barry has rightly said before and I reiterate it here, those members who gave any opinion followed the advice of certain civil servants who they believed knew what they were talking about. Michael now knows differently and is pushing our case.

People can think what they will on political lines but the Conservative Party for all it's faults has not used this as a political football


Political Stuff
- - - - - - - - - -

I have the utmost respect for any politician who can see an error has occurred and then changes his or her views. The PJM is not a party political issue at all (except in Scotland and Northern Ireland where they have more traditional and regional views about their veterans and local Regiments, and are willing to speak up for them). It never has been a party political issue - the parties are all fed by the same MoD suits. Two ex-Ministers, Michael Ancram (Tory) and Don Touhig (Labour), are examples of the ray of hope. In reality, both were misled by the Mod about double-medalling. Their researchers would have contacted the MoD for confirmation of the position and they were misled by those in the MoD. That is why they were issuing 'party line' responses through people like Ms Helic. They would never have believed that the MoD would dare mislead them, but that is what happened. That is why we were getting so frustrated - nobody would listen.

Note the two I refer to are now ex-Ministers - they are no longer shackled. They no longer have to accept the lines given to them by the Departmental civil servants. It is the civil servants who dictate what these Ministers have to have as their opinion. What worries me is that it is the civil servants who run this country, not the politicians who simply do not have the time to research and write 53-page Rebuttals.

Mark Harper
- - - - - - - - - -
-
Turning to Mark Harper’s letter that George posted, I have never seen such a display of incompetence in this medal issue - by anyone, at any time. It was sent to the wrong address (mine - George lives in Belfast and is not a relation) and the contents are complete gibberish.

I have only seen Mark Harper reiterate the rubbish he is spoon fed by the civil servants who have their own, almost subjective, agenda to achieve, not that of the MoD Veterans Minister. Don Touhig discovered that. Mark Harper will do well to learn from that.

Even Prime Ministers are kept from the true facts by those who surround them. Remember the bemused look on Heath’s face as he was chucked out of No 10 - only when he hit the pavement did he ‘see the light’ of reality. Same thing happened to Harold Wilson.

No … I can cope with the vagaries of politicians. I am more worried about the unelected civil servants pulling the strings. It’s just a shame that David Cameron doesn’t see it that way … he’ll learn, though. The hard way, I suspect.

Barry


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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George F wrote:
Regards the decision by the HD committee, I am sure all will agree if it wasn't political it was sure as hell mean spirted and bloodyminded. The sooner these bunch of so called gentlemen who committed an ungentlemanly act swallow their pride and do a u/turn the better.


Amen to that, George.

But they will not be able to do that while civil servants, lurking in their Departments, feed them disinformation and the opinions that they (the HD Committee and Ministers) must adopt as "long-established"! policy

Barry


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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I have recently returned from Malaysia.There were many ex australian airforce personnel being presented with the pjm there photos were in the malay newspapers.I felt like writing to the papers but held back.

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Welcome to the forum Allan, was yours a holiday or a nostalgia trip to Malaysia? Looks like the Govt of Malaysia are trying to get a lot of ex Vets back there next year, I wonder how we would all shape up again?


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Bottom line it looks like a lot of bemused people will be watching the postbox over the next few weeks wondering if they are on the list, will they actually receive something which the good people of Malaysia have offered to say thank you, which they certainly did not have to do! the honour of which goes way beyond my simple abilities to thank them for and can only regret that our goverment (no matter who) can not even have the graciousness to say thankyou for the honour you do our people!

I sincerely hope my contribution (small as it was) has been remembered and I certainly WILL wear it with pride to honour Malaysia and those who did not come back (on both sides funnily enough - what a waste!) - and if for any reason it didn't go through I will still remember with PRIDE both the people and the place and my time there AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS!

Mike Eaton (ex RN - 'baby sailor' at the time)

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Mike

Thanks for your post and support and welcome!

The more people that know what our (?) UK Govt is like the more they are regarded as a laughing stock, the word is spreading big time, I hope the media pick up on this hypocrisy next Wednesday for those at The Malaysian High Commission in London receiving their PJM.

I really cannot in my wildest imagination understand the insincerity of a group of Civil Servants hell bent on committing the cardinal sin of offending ex Servicemen and Women who were part and parcel instrumental in defeating terrorism, they should hang their heads in shame.


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