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Smudger
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 137
Location: Stockport
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How far down the road are we?
Can anyone actually tell me exactly where we are in the fight4 scenario?
Up to now THREE people from varying parts of the country tell me that official permission to wear the medal has been granted.I haven't myself seen anything to substatiate those claims.
I do wear mine (replica)alongside my GSM & Clasp Malaya anyway as I've always been a bit of a rebel,but I would appreciate any info.
_________________ Hold the line steady boys.
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Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:25 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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Smudger
I think people have been misinterpreting the 'spin' put out by the suits re 'we will not police it if you wear it'. To my knowledge nothing official has come from Whitehall or Her Majesty. We are constantly being informed 'soon' or 'shortly' and I suppose we can interpret that as meaning 'imminent' so let us wait just a little longer, we live in hope!
_________________ --------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:59 pm |
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StanW
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 236
Location: Halesowen, West Midlands
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""
Last edited by StanW on Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:21 am |
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lo_rre
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 41
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One wonders were these three Chelsea Pensioners given permission by their superior officer to wear PJM medals while in the uniform of The Queen and allowing their photograph to be used in a national newspaper to stick the two fingers up against the non wearing rule in the PJM ministerial statement?
Question: The middle pensioner is wearing two other medals (next to his PJM) they look foreign, one wonders were these two medals given unrestricted permission to wear by The Queen?
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Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:27 am |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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Re: How far down the road are we?
Smudger wrote:Can anyone actually tell me exactly where we are in the fight4 scenario?
Up to now THREE people from varying parts of the country tell me that official permission to wear the medal has been granted.I haven't myself seen anything to substatiate those claims.
I do wear mine (replica)alongside my GSM & Clasp Malaya anyway as I've always been a bit of a rebel,but I would appreciate any info.
Smudger, No matter how some interpret what they are read or are told, British citizens do not have formal permission to wear the PJM. They do not have the Queen's permission to wear the medal - and an MoD Notice states that to wear an unauthorised medal is a grave discourtesy to the Queen. Each must make their own decision but, until I receive the Queen's permission, I shall not wear mine. If I did, I would not be giving the 'royal salute' to the civil servants - what I would be doing is responding to them and letting them off the hook. They'll laugh all the way to their next OBE because they've successfully encouraged us to wear an unauthorised medal and, in so doing, have taken the focus off them and their discredited acts.
Whether to wear the PJM or not is a personal decision, though. What I have just stated is a personal view.
For two years we have been making a simple case. There is no tenable reason why eight civil servants should not ask the Queen her view by placing a recommendation in front of her. They have steadfastly refused to do that. If She says “No” we’ll all know where we are up to. If She says “Yes”, then British veterans will be able to wear their PJM with the same honour as the Aussies and Kiwis to whom the Queen has given formal permission.
The suits know that if they ask the Queen She will say “Yes”.
And that is why, so far, they haven’t asked Her!
However, following intense lobbying over the last year from many quarters, not just Fight4thePJM, the civil servants have decided to ask the Honours and Decorations to look at their PJM recommendation again.
The HD Committee was supposed to report back last November. It has taken longer than expected for them to organise their reply but I hope that we shall know before the end of this month - and in time for those who are going to Malaysia to know where they are up to. If they do not have formal permission, where does that leave them when they attend formal PJM presentations in Malaysia? In the context of today's situation they will offend either the Queen or the Agong by respectively wearing or not wearing their medal. The whole situation is 'ludicrous'.
Which reminds me ... following the Fight4thePJM's petition to the Scottish Parliament, Scottish MSP's eagerly await a response from the HD Committee explaining their 'ludicrous' decision. And our next hearing is on the 20th March ... a date for your diary? Or will the HD Committee spare everyone (and I include those in Buckingham Palace) any further embarrassment and put this matter to bed once and for all before that date?
Barry
PS When we have a positive answer (but not until), this web site will close and we’ll pack our bags and go home. This is a single issue campaign for us.
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:41 am |
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GLOman
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 668
Location: Northamptonshire
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How far down the road are we?
Barry,
Even for latecomers like me this site has been, actually, still is a vibrant
interest in our lives. Please, give us a day or two when the time comes
to celebrate and say thanks to "The Great Eight" and cheerio to the others
whose names have become familiar over the many months past.
Regards,
David
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Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:14 am |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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Re: How far down the road are we?
GLOman wrote:
Barry,
Even for latecomers like me this site has been, actually, still is a vibrant
interest in our lives. Please, give us a day or two when the time comes
to celebrate and say thanks to "The Great Eight" and cheerio to the others
whose names have become familiar over the many months past.
Regards,
David
David,
I fully understand what you are saying.
I think we have published (I'll find the link) how this web site will 'close'. The web site and Forum will remain open for a couple of weeks before new posts are no longer possible.
I have proposed leaving a 'frozen' web site on the Internet.
That way, a tribute will remain to those who have dedicated two years of their lives to this issue, and people will be able to see what they said and did.
Barry
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:23 am |
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chbuc
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 46
Location: GLASGOW SCOTLAND
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ReThe Chelsea Pensioners
With regard to the photo of the three Chelsea Pensioners and with reference to their Commading Officer if it is still unchanged from last year, he has the right to a PJM himself having served in the 1st Bn Scots Guards in 28 Com Inf Brigade based in Terendak Malacca plus 2 tours of Borneo Sarawak and Sabah.
I know I was there.
Cameron Buchanan
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Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:33 pm |
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lo_rre
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 41
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Re: ReThe Chelsea Pensioners
chbuc wrote:With regard to the photo of the three Chelsea Pensioners and with reference to their Commading Officer if it is still unchanged from last year, he has the right to a PJM himself having served in the 1st Bn Scots Guards in 28 Com Inf Brigade based in Terendak Malacca plus 2 tours of Borneo Sarawak and Sabah.
I know I was there.
Cameron Buchanan
Interesting story Cameron, It is possible the chelsea pensioners C/O was also present at the first PJM presentation in London last July.
Was he one of the three other Generals present that day mentioned in the newspaper article, and did the three pensioners ask their C/O for permission to wear the PJM medals while getting their photograph taken for the Daily Express? I notice Lord Bramall never wore his PJM medalfor the newspaper, but prefered to be photographed holding the medal in it's box.
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Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:57 pm |
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'Jock' Fenton
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1222
Location: Ontario, Canada
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GLOman wrote:
Quote:GLOman wrote;
Even for latecomers like me this site has been, actually, still is a vibrant
interest in our lives.
David....self professed 'latecomer' you may be...but a diligent and effective lobbyist you most certainly are! ...I urge all 'latecomers' to do a search on posts by 'GLOman' and see just what can be accomplished with a bit of effort....we'll be glad to sign on all the 'latecomers' we can get if 'GLOman's work is in any way indicative of the standard...
_________________ ...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:57 pm |
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GLOman
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 668
Location: Northamptonshire
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How far have we come?
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Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:51 pm |
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StanW
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 236
Location: Halesowen, West Midlands
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""
Last edited by StanW on Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:49 pm |
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GLOman
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 668
Location: Northamptonshire
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How far down the road are we?
Jock,
Although I appreciate the thought behind your words, there are a number of newcomers
who might have interpreted your words as a personal criticism rather than an encouragement
to greater efforts. I have recently been in contact with one or two who are giving as much support,
and posts as they feel they are able - not much point in creating a post if you haven't an
opinion to give. The fact that they registered is important - participation is secondary.
Please accept this post, as it is meant, with the utmost goodwill,
Yours sincerely,
David
StanW: Please pick up your ball and come back!
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Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:50 am |
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'Jock' Fenton
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1222
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Mea Culpa...
David.....thank you......I appreciate your admonishment and agree with your reservations....Of course, it was not my intention to level criticism, of any kind, at any member...It's difficult to remember that, when posting, the words one writes with the finest of motives, may sometimes be interpreted to mean something radically different to the reader, than that which was intended by the writer.
My post was intended to provide nothing more than an exhortation to all members to actively participate in the lobbying process to the best of their ability...providing positive, activist role models is conducive toward that end...Membership, as you point out, is fundamental and our membership continues to grow (which fact fills me with glee!).
To any member who may have interpreted my remarks on the exemplary lobbying demonstrated by GLOman as a slight upon their own efforts, I offer my unreserved apology.
In retrospect, I could (and probably should) have phrased my posting differently. In future, I shall try harder.
In the hope that this explanation will suffice?
_________________ ...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:27 am |
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GLOman
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 668
Location: Northamptonshire
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How far down the road are we?
Jock. PAX; from me, thanks,
Regards,
David
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Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:12 pm |
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