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What can you or can't you wear?
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Post What can you or can't you wear? 
A Sikh on a Motorbike can wear a turban in the UK but you must not wear a Crash Helmet in a bank or supermarket, a Muslem woman can wear a veil on the streets of Britain or anyone can wear a thong on a beach. You can wear your hair long or short, a man can wear a dress and a woman a suit, you can wear a Condom or have the choice not to, it is what Britain is known for throughout the World, we are that accommodating.

But............

You serve your Queen and Country as a Serviceman/Woman and then your Civil Liberties cease or do they.......................


-----Original Message-----
From: JOHN COOPER Sent: 24 October 2006 08:45
To: chris.edge@fco.gov.uk
Subject: RE: PINGAT JASA MALAYSIA


Good morning Chris

It is unusual for you not to reply to a question, so may I ask you the same as below

Can the Govt tell its citizens what and what not to wear, not according to Hazel Blears MP they can't so why can you dictate to us what we can and cannot wear?

Best regards

John Cooper


Dear Mr Cooper

Thank you for your e-mail.

I think you are aware, from previous correspondence, that there are no laws governing the accepting and wearing of non-British awards by British nationals. The wearing of such awards is not policed, and no laws are broken if someone accepts and wears a medal. However, successive Sovereigns have indicated that they would like permission to be sought before foreign medals are presented to British nationals. They have also agreed that there should be rules drawn up to cover these matters. These are the rules under which the PJM (and under which all requests to present non-British awards to British nationals) has been considered.

The HD Committee is involved in this as it is the Committee which advises the Sovereign of the day on matters relating to Honours, decorations and medals.

The Rebuttal Statement (plus update and addendum) together with the points you and many other veterans and others have made in recent months, about the PJM and the recommendations, will now be considered by the HD Committee.

Yours sincerely,
Chris Edge

John Cooper
[/i]

The bold and italics are my doing John Cooper to emphasise the point that is being made.

Has anyone seen what successive Sovereigns have actually asked for? How do we know that this isn't the Protocol of The Court of St James and made up as they go along, ooooohhhhh and They have also agreed that there should be rules drawn up to cover these matters really! Is this in writing I wonder? Anyone want to tackle this one rather than me asking the same question over and over again?


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I am wondering where it states, that as a civilian - but ex Royal Navy -I cannot wear the medal. As a civilian I am not, I would expect, be bound by military QR's and AI's. The days of being in the position of, ‘obeying orders’ has long passed. I fail in my simplistic mind to understand why I am barred from wearing this medal, legitimately awarded.

I live now in Australian and have become a citizen and far away from the rule of the raj I shall wear my medal on the occasions that medals are worn. I defy anyone to tell me take it off because to do so they must have the authority to enforce that ‘order’ and I do see who has that authority. We shall see on the day!

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pingbosun wrote:
I am wondering where it states, that as a civilian - but ex Royal Navy -I cannot wear the medal. As a civilian I am not, I would expect, be bound by military QR's and AI's. The days of being in the position of, ‘obeying orders’ has long passed. I fail in my simplistic mind to understand why I am barred from wearing this medal, legitimately awarded.

I live now in Australian and have become a citizen and far away from the rule of the raj I shall wear my medal on the occasions that medals are worn. I defy anyone to tell me take it off because to do so they must have the authority to enforce that ‘order’ and I do see who has that authority. We shall see on the day!


PBS Welcome to the forum and your first post which is important.

You are correct in saying that you do not come under any law or discipline as a 'retired' serviceman' and a lot of us think that this is a rule trumped up to suit the needs of a prehistoric fossil Committee. We will overturn this rule that there is no doubt, it might take a while but Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock we are watching and waiting


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Post What can you wear and what you cannot 
It seems to me that Chris Edge has not chosen his words very carefully. He states that no laws are broken in the acceptence and wearing of the PJM, inasmuch as it is not policed.

Hmmm. Very interesting. Then perhaps Mr Edge can then explain why, we were barred from acceptence in the first place, only for that decision to be reversed and formal acceptence then permitted, but not to wear.

Then they have the termerity to quote that it would be discourteous to her Majesty, to wear the medal. At the same time allowing senior military officers to accept and wear foreign decorations, unrestricted.

When we ask for the matter to be placed in context, with regard to their apparent flexibility in terms of senior officers being permitted to wear, unrestricted, then not allowing us to do the same, then one tends to think that the old thinking mechanism of the Honours and Decorations Committee, is a bit suspect.

They cite that Her Majesty has not given permission and that they have on file, a signature, from Her Majesty, purporting to give her Royal Assent to their ludicrous statement.

They seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that it was her Majesty that had conferred this medal on us, and all of their decisions were based on that assumption.
That is where the confusion has arisen and presumably, will stay that way until they review their own disasterous decision.

The fact that they are reluctant to undertake that review, sends a clear message that they are in serious error, and their arrogance will not allow them to admit it. Hence the silence. After all, how long does it take for a committee to sit round a table and say ' Yes! We have made a mistake. Let's reverse our decision and advise Her Majesty, accordingly'.

Simple, effective and to the point, only, why do they refuse to do it.


Yours Aye

Arthur

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Quote:
Pingbosun wrote;
live now in Australian and have become a citizen and far away from the rule of the raj I shall wear my medal on the occasions that medals are worn. I defy anyone to tell me take it off because to do so they must have the authority to enforce that ‘order’ and I do see who has that authority. We shall see on the day


Welcome 'Pingbosun' to the forum....and thank you for your post!

Whether or not a recipient of the PJM can wear that decoration with relative impunity is not really at question...In attempt to extricate themselves from the mess that they themselves created, the 'suits' have reiterated many times that 'wearing the medal will not be policed'....but, with respect, that does not satisfy me. or many of my comrades. We were the ones who performed the duties which merited eligibility for the PJM....The Agong and Government of Malaysia determined that! Who the Hell are these 'suits' to arbitrarily dictate, by issuance of this specious and spiteful edict that 'Permission to wear the medal will not be formally given'??

By so doing they have reduced an honourable award to the status of 'trinket'. While I have the ultimate respect for the PJM and for the generous nation that bestowed it upon me...I have neither use nor time for 'trinkets'.

This is, in my mind, quite simply a matter of Honour and of Right....My attitude is that I will never wear any decoration to which I do not have an unfettered, unrestricted RIGHT.....and furthermore, I will invest as much time and effort as becomes necessary to ensure that RIGHT, not only for myself, but for all of my comrades who served with me...regardless of their country of origin or current country of residence.

This fight for the RIGHT goes on....ad infinitum!


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Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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I have long pondered this subject, as indeed we all have, but until we win this fight, - AND WE WILL - I have penned the following just to keep me going. I do hope, and believe, that this forum may be the medium by which it may, ON A PURELY PERSONAL basis, be published.

“I, Anthony James Davies, of (Address Provided), Hampshire, hereby declare, under the protection of the Human Rights Act 1998, Part I, The Convention, Rights and Freedoms, Article 10, Freedom of Expression, that; irrespective of any directive to the alternative by the Committee on the Grant of Honours Decorations and Medals, (known generally as the HD Committee); shall wear my Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal on formal occasions and with pride. I further declare that contrary to any statement or opinion by any person or persons to the opposite, this gesture is not intended by me to be in any way a discourtesy to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.”

I would reiterate that this statement is made ON A PURELY PERSONAL basis, and should not be construed as the view of any other contributer to this Web Site.

ALL comments, derogatory or otherwise, would be welcome.

Tony

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Yes Tony, bearing in mind that it is totally illogical to say that you cannot wear it, but it will not be policed. So! Which is correct?

More Civil Serpent doublespeak i'm afraid.

Yours Aye

Arthur

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