Who made the rule that says 'PERMISSION TO WEAR THE PJM WILL NOT HOWEVER, FORMALLY BE GIVEN'.

Was it Her Majesty the Queen who commanded us the we cannot formally wear the PJM? How will we know. We are not privy to the recommendations signed by Her Majesty and we have not been told that a). this is a Royal Command or b). this a rule of law prohibiting us from wearing it.

SO WHO SAYS WE CANNOT WEAR IT OR WHAT LAW/RULE SAYS THIS.

The rules produced by Jack Straw, Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary, do not state anywhere that permission can be withheld to wear a medal formally. They state under the Heading PERMISSION - Rule 5 ....
unrestricted - allowing the award to be worn on any occasion.
restricted - allowing the award to be worn on particular occasions ASSOCIATED with the foreign state that conferred it.

In his Written Ministerial Statement - a document handed to our parliament
advising them what has been done but not seeking anyone's permission, Pearson states:-

The Committee .....has recommended that an exception to the two long established rules governing the acceptance and wearing of foreign (including Commonwealth) awards be made...... HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN HAS BEEN GRACIOUSLY PLEASED TO APPROVE THIS RECOMMENDATION.
(l). there is nothing in the rules stating that foreign awards will include the Commonwealth and this appears to be a change to the rules by 'them'.
(2). later in this document Pearson states that Permission to wear the PJM will not however, be formally given, BUT this is AFTER he stated that Her Majesty the Queen agreed the recommendations in excepting the two rules on acceptance and wearing.

Does this mean that in fact Her Majesty the Queen did not sign a document which included the clause about non-wearing of the PJM. We are not allowed to know this and are to do as we are told!! How can we comply with an order if we do not know whether it is a lawful order or a command from our Queen.
WE MUST BE TOLD WHAT THE CORRECT FACTS OF THIS ACCEPTING AND WEARING THE PJM ARE BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT A DEMOCRACY IS ALL ABOUT.

We may have been subjected to discrimination laws and basic human rights but there is no reason for this matter to go so far. All we want to know is 'how can we obey instructions which have no legal authority but if this is a direct command from our Queen then someone please tell us'.

As far as I am aware, whenever anything is to be banned (hunting with hounds, smoking in public places, etc), the matter is subjected to debate in Parliament. Once agreed in the Commons, and that can take many readings, the Bill goes before the Lords who then have their chance to dissect its contents. Eventually, and it could take months or even years, the Bill is passed (or not in some cases) and goes before Her Majesty for the Royal Assent. The law then goes on to the Statute Book where it remains as a law to be observed by those of us who are law-abiding, or to be broken by those who are less honest. This is the democratic process and it allows for all MP's, Peers and the great unwashed general public to be kept aware of what is going on. I can recall no such process concerning the approval of "foreign" medals. Did I miss it, or did it take place so long ago that I would not have been aware of it? I doubt the former, so it means that the law, if it exists, dates over half a century since inception. In that case, it is obviously due for review and overhaul. I suspect, however, that there is no such law. We are being subjected to a set of rules made up by a privileged elite, probably in the wake of WWI, designed to keep the peasantry in their proper place. I have no fundamental problem with guidelines, and I certainly would not advocate the wearing of medals to show that the recipient was able, 40 years ago, to swim 100 yards, underwater, within a set time. Can anyone point me to the actual LAW that allows for any official medal, honestly earned and offered, to be banned from wear?

Must reduce the caffiene intake when I'm discussing theis matter.


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Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)

George F wrote:

However, most UK veterans have a certain respect for their medals, and dont include unofficial medals on their left breast. Its a personal prodocol carried over from their service days. However if some old vet wants to wear an unofficial Malta convoy medal or D/Day landing commemorative his grandaughter bought him for his birthday who am I to tell him he cant wear it. Likewise the MOD cant tell us we can't wear our PJM medals. George

That is the correct position. It is the respect that we are seeking ... to wear the PJM in line with other wearable gongs to which we are formally entitled ... and not have to pin them where some pin commercially available medals on the second tier.


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

Barry and George (a brace of Flemings?)
Exactly my point. I am the first to respect what any veteran has done to earn his medals, and if he is happy to wear any purchased commemorative, that's his business. As far as I'm concerned he can wear it where he likes. In the case of the PJM, I shall wear it with pride and I suspect that most people with any degree of respect will accept that. The thousands who line Whitehall on a cold Sunday morning in November and applaud as the veterans march by, are showing that respect. I would like the "Establishment" to accept that pride and respect, and to show such by allowing the rules of their protocol to bend to allowing the wearing of the PJM. But if I'm doing nobody any harm, showing nobody any disrespect and not frightening the horses, I shall break the protocol in the name of justice and fair play.


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Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)

GerryL wrote:

But if I'm doing nobody any harm, showing nobody any disrespect and not frightening the horses, I shall break the protocol in the name of justice and fair play.

Exactly, Gerry. Can say no more than that for those who wish to wear the PJM before we get the nod.


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

If I was playing a game of soccer (those were the days) and I fouled a member of the opposition I would be breaking the RULES of the game.I would not be breaking the LAW of the land, its as simple as that.
While I am here without being too boring, cast your mind back to December 1989.the Romanian revolution to be precise. President Ceausescu, a Totalitarian dictator was standing on a balcony overlooking the crowd that had gathered.He was demanding and ordering them (as dictators do) to go back to work and obey his rule.There were rumbles of discontent in the crowd and they started to shout him down.From that moment on he knew he had lost.We all know His fate .He didn't last long after that.
Now,when and if we get our medals and we gathered en-mass(wearing aforesaid)and demonstated against the "suits".Sorry HD committee.It would be seen that they were loosing power.They would disappear up there own backsides quicker than that.
From my own personal view I would do it not for me, or for you, but for OUR comrades who did not make it home.They must not be forgotten.
Wearing the medal on official occasions,people would ask about it and want to know what it was all about.Thrown in the back of a drawer it would be forgotten.Just like our comrades.
We must not let this "injustice" happen.

Rgds Ray

Ray makes a very good point when he says that wearing the PJM honours the memory of those who did not return. It is not just an outward recognition of the service that we gave to Malaysia, but also a perpetual reminder to those who might forget, or who were not even aware. On several occasions I have been asked by my young colleagues to identify a medal that they have seen on a TV programme and I always tell them what the medal is called as well as what it is awarded for. If Joe Public sees the PJM being worn, he may ask the question and we can give him the answer. If the medal languishes in the drawer of the sideboard, then it is out of sight and out of mind to all but the recipient.


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Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)