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Dear Correspondent,

I am afraid that we do not have the resources to maintain e-mail exchanges with all who are continuing to send messages about the PJM and related issues.

I believe that you know the current situation..................that the PJM is being looked at again by the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals (HD Committee), in the light of the Rebuttal Statement, and subsequent papers and comments from you and others.. An announcement about any recommendations by the HD Committee will be made once the matter has been considered.

Yours sincerely,
Chris Edge
Chris Edge
Honours Secretary
Foreign and Commonwealth Office

===================================================================================

Dear Mr Edge,

Thank you for your communal e-mail reply of the 3rd of November in which you comment that you do not have the resources to maintain e-mail contact regarding the PJM. Perhaps you misunderstood, or I failed to make it clear enough, the questions I was asking of you.

I was not referring to issues leading up to the review currently taking place about the PJM decision made by the HD Committee, which your reply infers My questions centred on issues that would arise should the review not rescind their previous conclusion not to allow the wearing of the PJM. As such I believe this to be a reasonable request.

I am sorry if you feel this is stretching your resources, however I used up a considerable amount of my own resources in serving this country for twenty six years as a regular soldier and reservist, including my service in Malaysian Borneo. I think this gives me the right to ask questions about something that both concerns me and, is to me, a matter of great principle.

One hopes that I do not have to continue asking questions if this unfair decision is reversed, but I was trained, by this country, to prepare and be ready for all eventualities and so I intend be. To this end I still trust you will be able to answer the question, "Should the HD Committee decide not to accept the Rebuttal Statement and continue to advise the refusal of permission to wear the PJM, would it be right to assume that in those circumstances that the HD Committee had also recommended to Her Majesty that the Petition she has received on this matter, should not be accepted?"

I still believe there are many fair minded people in Whitehall and despite everything, the decision made by the HD Committee will be reversed, based on the fair and reasonable argument of the Rebuttal Statements and the points I and many others have made.

Yours sincerely,

Name and address supplied.


_________________
Pingat Kami - Hak Kami
651 Signal Troop,
Semengo Camp,
Kuching.
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Sent to Dennis Brennan.

"Dear Mr. Brennan,

As one personally affected by the decision of the HD Committee decision to advise Her Majesty not to permit the wearing of the PJM after seemingly being reluctant to accept this magnanimous gesture by the Agong and Government of Malaysia in the first place, I still cannot rationalise the criteria used and disposed of in making these decisions.

Hence I, and I believe many thousands of other veterans, feel a great sense of hurt and injustice in the way British veterans have been treated so differently from our Commonwealth Comrades in Arms.

In comparing like to like, then surely the accepting and permission to wear, the Russian 40th Anniversary Medal in 1985 and 1995 respectively, directly conflicts with the Decision announced on the 31st January 2006 that the PJM may not be worn. Why then have my rights been denied in respect of the PJM?

Such seemingly unfair decisions do little to convince Veterans that they are in any way valued by this Government once their service is ended".

Name and address supplied


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Pingat Kami - Hak Kami
651 Signal Troop,
Semengo Camp,
Kuching.
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Well said Semengo....difficult words to ignore....all should follow your example!


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...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Semengo13 wrote:
I am sorry if you feel this is stretching your resources, however I used up a considerable amount of my own resources in serving this country for twenty six years as a regular soldier and reservist, including my service in Malaysian Borneo. I think this gives me the right to ask questions about something that both concerns me and, is to me, a matter of great principle.

... "Should the HD Committee decide not to accept the Rebuttal Statement and continue to advise the refusal of permission to wear the PJM, would it be right to assume that in those circumstances that the HD Committee had also recommended to Her Majesty that the Petition she has received on this matter, should not be accepted?"


Very pertinent question, Semengo13!

I hope others will ask the same question - perhaps via their MP as well.

Thanks for your continuing support.

Barry


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Semengo13 wrote:
As one personally affected by the decision of the HD Committee decision to advise Her Majesty not to permit the wearing of the PJM after seemingly being reluctant to accept this magnanimous gesture by the Agong and Government of Malaysia in the first place, I still cannot rationalise the criteria used and disposed of in making these decisions.

...

In comparing like to like, then surely the accepting and permission to wear, the Russian 40th Anniversary Medal in 1985 and 1995 respectively, directly conflicts with the Decision announced on the 31st January 2006 that the PJM may not be worn. Why then have my rights been denied in respect of the PJM?


Another relevant point well made, Semengo13.

They will tell you that they only accepted the 1985 version of the Russian medal in 1995 when it was decided that Russia had become politically acceptable in the eyes of the UK.

So my next question is ... "What exactly does a friendly Commonwealth country, which is a moderate Muslim nation, have to do to achieve 'most favoured country' status so that its medal can be worn?"

Barry

PS They will also tell you they did not acpet the 1995 Russian Medal

PPS They will not tell you, however, that they also accepted the Malta 50th Anniversary Medal in 1992. And that is more on 'all fours' with the PJM than the Rusian medal because it is from a Commonwealth country.

PPPS And they won't tell you either that both the Russian and Malta Medals required a British medal to be held to qualify ... two imposed double medals!


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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The Rt Hon Adam Ingram MP
Minister of State for the Armed Forces
House of Commons.
London
United Kingdom.

Email: ingrama@parliament.uk


9 November 2006.


Dear Sir,

I refer to your web page at….

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/HistoryAndHonour/VeteransBadgeAwardedTo1960sVeterans.htm

Where you are quoted…..

Mr Ingram said:

"Today there are 10 million veterans living, working and contributing across every walk of life in the United Kingdom. The HM Armed Forces Veteran's Badge and UK Merchant Seafarers Veteran's Badge are marks of our respect and gratitude.

"I am delighted to announce that we are extending the eligibility to a new group of thoroughly deserving veterans. These men and women served in small wars and counter insurgencies; in conflicts that are perhaps less in the limelight today. Conflicts that saw bloody fighting from the jungles of Malaya, Borneo and Sarawak to the dusty plains and city of Aden at the tip of the Arabian Peninsula.

"As Winston Churchill said: 'A medal glitters, but it also casts a shadow'. And those words certainly resonate today, in this week of Remembrance Sunday. As we commemorate the bravery and sacrifice of our commitment of our service personnel we also remember those who did not return."

I am very pleased to note that at last a Minister of the Crown admits that the Malaysian “Konfrontasi war”, was a place where bloody fighting took place in those jungles.“

But, Mr Ingram, you were very very, selective with your quote. The full quotation is as follows….

A medal glitters, but it also casts a shadow. The task of drawing up regulations for such awards is one which does not admit of a perfect solution. It is not possible to satisfy everybody without running the risk of satisfying nobody. All that is possible is to give the greatest satisfaction to the greatest number and to hurt the feelings of the fewest.'
(W.S. Churchill, House of Commons, 22 August 1944.)

Some of the veterans of the Malaysian Konfrontasi are wondering why you were so selective in just quoting one sentence of the quotation?

Let me ask you to consider the rest of Winston Churchill’s quotation.

Why is it that you and the Labour Government do not “give the greatest satisfaction to the greatest number and to hurt the feelings of the fewest” in relation to the Veterans of the Malaysian Konfrontasi?

In relation to that honorable award, the “Pingat Jasa Malaysia” (Malaysian Service Medal), you and the Government that you represent, appear to have spun Churchill’s quotation 180 degrees.

You and your Government now have it reading, “to hurt the feeling of the greatest number and to give the greatest satisfaction to the fewest.”

Is this not the case Mr Ingram? If you can’t see this point of view, you should resign.

When are you going to give the veterans permission to wear the honorable Pingat Jasa Malaysia that we were awarded for our service, by the Agong, Government and Peoples of Malaysia?

Yours faithfully.



John Feltham

RAF Veteran of Malaya, Borneo and Sarawak (You apparently forgot, Brunei?)

WULGURU 4811
North Queensland
Australia


Email: xxxx


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Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
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A cracking letter John. I will be writing too but don't think I could improve on yours.

regards

John Rushton


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Pingat Kami - Hak Kami
651 Signal Troop,
Semengo Camp,
Kuching.
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Post Re: An open letter to The Minister 
John Feltham wrote:
When are you going to give the veterans permission to wear the honorable Pingat Jasa Malaysia that we were awarded for our service, by the Agong, Government and Peoples of Malaysia?


John,

A great letter.

I would like to add ... "Support Don Touhig's initiative and tell the HD Committee to rescind their PJM recommendation that specifically 'dis'-honours Malaya-Borneo veterans."

Barry


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Post Another open letter the the Minister 
Just to demonstrate that I am still 'alive and kicking'....
======================================

The Rt Hon Adam Ingram MP
Minister of State for the Armed Forces
House of Commons.

09 November 2006

Dear Sir,

It was with much interest that I read your recent pronouncement of extended eligibility for the Veterans Badge.

Your selectively cropped quotation of Winston Spencer Churchill's words however, left me with somewhat ambivalent feelings...while I fully endorse Sir Winston's unabridged sentiments with regards to medals, I wonder if perhaps you are using his words in the same way that a drunk uses a lamppost...i.e. More for support than for illumination.

....are you not confusing your 'Veterans Badge' with a 'medal'? For the record, this Badge does not signify anything other than the wearer having worn Her Majesty's uniform within a prescribed period of time....whereas a medal signifies that the wearer has been engaged in a specific theatre of war, under conditions of active service.

... why are you so overtly complimentary toward the veterans of the Malaya/Borneo jungle campaigns? I would remind you that these are the same veterans from whom your government has withheld the right to wear the medal, the Pingat Jasa Malaysia, bestowed upon them by the grateful peoples of Malaysia.

Permit me to remind you Sir that there is an old maxim by which all politicians will ultimately be judged... "People may be suspicious of the things you say...but they will always believe the things you do".

There are 35,000 Malaya/Borneo Veterans who, already, are eminently well aware of what to believe of your government!

Sincerely,

John 'Jock' Fenton
ex-Royal Corps of Signals & 17th Gurkha Division.


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...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Post A chink of light ??? 
Am I being too optimistic or is there a subtle change in this latest response from Chris Edge?

Reply by e-mail from Mr Chris Edge, just received:-

Dear Mr Rushton
Thank you for your e-mail. As you know, the matter of the PJM is currently being considered. I do not think it is appropriate to answer what are at this stage hypothetical questions about recommendations that may or not be made by the HD Committee. I understand your concern and the concern of the many others who have written about the PJM. Once the matter has been considered, an announcement will be made.
Yours sincerely,
Chris Edge

-----Original Message-----
From: John Rushton [mailto:rushton13@btinternet.com]
Sent: 06 November 2006 13:28
To: chris.edge@fco.gov.uk
Subject: Fw: Pingat Jasa Malaysia


Dear Mr Edge,

Thank you for your communal e-mail reply of the 3rd of November in which you comment that you do not have the resources to maintain e-mail contact regarding the PJM. Perhaps you misunderstood, or I failed to make it clear enough, the questions I was asking of you.

I was not referring to issues leading up to the review currently taking place about the PJM decision made by the HD Committee, which your reply infers My questions centred on issues that would arise should the review not rescind their previous conclusion not to allow the wearing of the PJM. As such I believe this to be a reasonable request.

I am sorry if you feel this is stretching your resources, however I used up a considerable amount of my own resources in serving this country for twenty six years as a regular soldier and reservist, including my service in Malaysian Borneo. I think this gives me the right to ask questions about something that both concerns me and, is to me, a matter of great principle.

One hopes that I do not have to continue asking questions if this unfair decision is reversed, but I was trained, by this country, to prepare and be ready for all eventualities and so I intend be. To this end I still trust you will be able to answer the question, "Should the HD Committee decide not to accept the Rebuttal Statement and continue to advise the refusal of permission to wear the PJM, would it be right to assume that in those circumstances that the HD Committee had also recommended to Her Majesty that the Petition she has received on this matter, should not be accepted?"

I still believe there are many fair minded people in Whitehall and despite everything, the decision made by the HD Committee will be reversed, based on the fair and reasonable argument of the Rebuttal Statements and the points I and many others have made.

Yours sincerely,

John Rushton,


_________________
Pingat Kami - Hak Kami
651 Signal Troop,
Semengo Camp,
Kuching.
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John R

I think several of us have found a slight change of direction, reading between the lines I don't know whether this is good or bad, but being the ever optimist, I'm saying good! Very Happy

I have had further correspondence from 'within' today, no ASBOs for me at the moment and there does appear to be a softening in the dialogue, and so, I too am reciprocating, but don't anyone get my hackles up.............. Shocked


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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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John Cooper wrote:
John R

I think several of us have found a slight change of direction, reading between the lines I don't know whether this is good or bad, but being the ever optimist, I'm saying good! Very Happy

I have had further correspondence from 'within' today, no ASBOs for me at the moment and there does appear to be a softening in the dialogue, and so, I too am reciprocating, but don't anyone get my hackles up.............. Shocked



Gentlemen,

Beware of the whipped dog, he can sometimes be very cunning before turning nasty!

Keep your guard up and your gloves on!!!!!!!

Regards,

Jodakist

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Jodakist

Yes you are correct of course and I'm sure we are all being very wary but from Wikipedia

According to Hesiod, who related the tale twice, (Theogony, 527ff; Works and Days 57ff) Epimetheus and Pandora were married. Pandora had been given a covered pithos, or storage jar, by Hermes and was instructed never to open it. However, Hermes also gave her curiosity, so she opened it anyway, releasing all the misfortunes of mankind. She shut it in time to keep one thing in reserve: hope. Thus mankind always has hope in times of evil.


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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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John Cooper wrote:
Jodakist

Yes you are correct of course and I'm sure we are all being very wary but from Wikipedia

According to Hesiod, who related the tale twice, (Theogony, 527ff; Works and Days 57ff) Epimetheus and Pandora were married. Pandora had been given a covered pithos, or storage jar, by Hermes and was instructed never to open it. However, Hermes also gave her curiosity, so she opened it anyway, releasing all the misfortunes of mankind. She shut it in time to keep one thing in reserve: hope. Thus mankind always has hope in times of evil.


Wonderful, John.

I just hope the suits are not taking the 'pithos' but leaving a 'jar' ... the door ajar, so hope may enter the room.


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Jodakist wrote:
Beware of the whipped dog, he can sometimes be very cunning before turning nasty!

Keep your guard up and your gloves on!!!!!!!


Wise words, Jock.


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