I received this in reply to my email send to Richard Coney at the MoD

Dear Mr Cooper,



In answer to your questions:



I cannot tell you haw many applications we have so far received, as no records are being maintained. However, I estimate that at least 5,000 application forms have been seen, the vast majority having been sent by Mr Burden of the National Malaya and Borneo Veterans Association.



All applications received so far have been checked to ensure that they were verified by the appropriate veterans’ organisation and have been sent on to the Malaysian High Commission for further action.



I hope this is helpful.



R T Coney

DS Sec – Honours 1

MOD




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: JOHN COOPER]
Sent: 24 June 2006 08:53
To: Coney, Richard Mr
Subject: PJM Application Forms



Attn: Mr Richard Coney moD



Can you please update me on the number of applications the MoD have received from Organisations/Associations regarding the issueing of the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal offered to Veterans of The Malayan Confrontation/Confrontasi 1957-1966



Could you also please inform me when the applications are being returned to the Malaysian High Commission for approval.



Thank you for your help, in the event of you not being able to assist can you please pass this email on to somewone who would know and could I please have confirmation that you have received this enquiry and acting upon it


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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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here is letter from my MP. Are they real?

Dear Mr MacDonald,

Thank you for your email regarding the Pingat Jasa Malaysia medal.
Like you, I agree that we should not forget the heroic actions of those
who served in Malaya or Malaysia. I can understand your wish for the ex
servicemen who served between August 1957 and August 1966 to receive the
same recognition that their fellow Australian and New Zealand comrades are
receiving.

Indeed, I have always held the utmost respect for the bravery and supreme
gallantry shown by the soldiers and veterans who have served and continue
to serve in the British Armed Forces. As anyone observing Remembrance Day
services or commemorations such as the VE Day 60th Anniversary, will know,
seeing rank upon rank of veterans parading before their Queen and country
is something in which we should all take great pride.

I welcome the decision by the Committee on the Grant of Honours,
Decorations and Medals to recommend that veterans may receive the Pingat
Jasa medal. However, I support their decision to deny formal permission to
wear the medal. I believe that it would be unfair on those servicemen who
served in other foreign campaigns, and did not receive a medal for their
service, if the Pingat Jasa medal was allowed to be worn by veterans.

Thank you for writing to me on this important matter.

Yours sincerely

Caroline Spelman
MP for Meriden

I am amazed at the Conservative MP's support og HMG's decision not to allow the wearing of the medal. She should talk to her fellow conservative MP and Privy Councillor Rt.Hon Michael Ancram QC MP who supports our cause to wear the PJM. Spelman is lissed as Shadow Secretary of State for Local Government. I hope no one votes for her. Whilst I dream up an appropriate email to send her, her contact details aare listed as follows so dear readers give her heaps. She also has a website listed.

Cheers

Hamish from Aussie land




Email address:
House of Commons: caroline@carolinespelman.com

Telephone numbers:
House of Commons Fax number: 020 7219 0378
House of Commons Phone number: 020 7219 4189
Constituency Fax number: 0121 711 2955
Constituency Phone number: 0121 711 2955
Addresses:
Constituency
2 Manor Rd
Solihull
West Midlands B91 2BH

Thank you for posting this John,

...it is obvious that, not only is your MP the victim of her own confused logic, she is also slavishly committed to 'toeing the official line' regardless of any and all evidence as to it's wrong-headedness.

Remember her name, and her position on this matter, when the next election rolls around!


_________________
...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

In response to Hamish's excellent suggestion this was just sent to Ms Spelman's email addy:

Dear Ms Spelman,

Having been made aware of your letter to a constituent (one John MacDonald) on the topic of the Pingat Jasa Malaysia I feel obliged to take issue with you on the following statement

"I support their decision to deny formal permission to
wear the medal. I believe that it would be unfair on those servicemen who
served in other foreign campaigns, and did not receive a medal for their
service, if the Pingat Jasa medal was allowed to be worn by veterans"

This is a specious comment, not a thoughtful piece of reasoning...might I suggest that you have a little chat with your colleague Michael Ancram on the topic, perhaps such an interaction with a person of some intellect might serve to 'bring you into the real world' wherein you might be of more service to your constituents.

'Jock' Fenton
ex-Royal Corps of Signals & 17th Gurkha Division


_________________
...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

john macdonald wrote:

here is letter from my MP. Are they real?

Dear Mr MacDonald,

Thank you for your email regarding the Pingat Jasa Malaysia medal.
Like you, I agree that we should not forget the heroic actions of those
who served in Malaya or Malaysia. I can understand your wish for the ex
servicemen who served between August 1957 and August 1966 to receive the
same recognition that their fellow Australian and New Zealand comrades are
receiving.

Indeed, I have always held the utmost respect for the bravery and supreme
gallantry shown by the soldiers and veterans who have served and continue
to serve in the British Armed Forces. As anyone observing Remembrance Day
services or commemorations such as the VE Day 60th Anniversary, will know,
seeing rank upon rank of veterans parading before their Queen and country
is something in which we should all take great pride.

I welcome the decision by the Committee on the Grant of Honours,
Decorations and Medals to recommend that veterans may receive the Pingat
Jasa medal. However, I support their decision to deny formal permission to
wear the medal. I believe that it would be unfair on those servicemen who
served in other foreign campaigns, and did not receive a medal for their
service, if the Pingat Jasa medal was allowed to be worn by veterans.

Thank you for writing to me on this important matter.

Yours sincerely

Caroline Spelman
MP for Meriden

John

Firstly welcome to the forum, secondly I am reaching for my quill right now, here's to you Ms Spelman!

Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:00:07 +0100 (BST)
From: "JOHN COOPER"
Subject: Pingat Jasa Malaysia
To: caroline@carolinespelman.com


Ms Caroline Spelman MP

Madam

I have just cast my eyes over your letter to one of your constituent members re The Right to Wear The PJM Medal, I assume that your secretary has made an error here where you support the HD Committee with your crass comments.

Have you ever read how these Malaysian Vets fought their way through Jungle and Swamp, suggest Ma'am you have a word in Michael Ancrams QC MP 'shell like ear', I don't think he is going to be awfully pleased with your comments neither to the other 34999 recipients of The PJM some which are Posthumous Awards

John Cooper
Name and address supplied


_________________
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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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My gob is well and truly smacked!!!!

Here is the email that I have just launched at Ms Spelman:

Dear Ms Spelman,

I have just had sight of a letter you penned to a constituent of yours regarding the award of the Pingat Jasa Malaysia.

Thank you for recognising the "the heroic actions of those who served in Malaya/Malaysia" and for holding "the utmost respect for the bravery and supreme gallantry shown by the soldiers and veterans who have served and continue to serve in the British Armed Forces" . You are to be commended.

However, when I read your comments in the penultimate paragraph regarding the decision to withold permission for those veterans to wear the medal, I was flabbergasted! Never have I read such drivel. Nor, can I say, does it reflect the sentiments that you express above.

Can I suggest, Madam, that before you put pen to paper you at least research the subject.

Perhaps you would care to visit this site, http://www.fight4thepjm.org/index.htm and get a feel for the real issue. Whilst there, read these two documents, http://www.fight4thepjm.org/documents/Rebuttal_of_PJM_Ministerial_Statement_31012006.pdf and http://www.fight4thepjm.org/Rebuttal_Update/Rebuttal_Update_Addenda_v4_complete2b.pdf , both of which set out our case against this unjust decision in detail. Then talk to your Rt. Hon. friend, Michael Ancram. I'm sure he will advise you of the justness of our case.

As you can see from my address, I live in the country that so graciously honoured the veterans with the PJM. I, myself, expect to be so honoured. My local friends find it very difficult to understand the attitude of the British authorities towards this honour. They are not the only ones!

Full contact details supplied.

Please chaps, be kind she has not had the benefit of good advice!!! I have sent her this e-mail.

Dear Miss Spellman, I have been shown your reply to Mr. MacDonald in respect of the above medal and I am frankly amazed at your answer.

This is of course the standard reply given out by a discredited civil servant and the Labour Party ministers who work under him (or seem to) at the MOD. My own MP; Michael Ancram, was also content to follow that line until he had access to all the facts and he is now firmly on side campaigning for the medal to be accepted ‘unrestricted’. As a long term party member and a District Councillor as well as a Borneo veteran I can assure you that we are not asking for anything other than equal treatment with our other Commonwealth comrades in arms. The Malaysian Agong and Government have been gracious in this award and our own government has acted in a despicable manner slighting all the military veterans as well as the government and people of Malaysia.

Might I ask you to please read the rebuttal document as well as the update in order to acquaint yourself with the true facts (those rolled out by this government are a tissue of lies and half truths, nothing unusual there then) and please speak to Michael who I am sure will give you an entirely different perspective on this matter.

Regards

John Ireland

Member for Lickhill Ward NWDC

01249 811910

www.lickhillconservatives.org.uk

Have just had this reply from Ms Spelman:

Dear Mr Bean,

Thank you for your email concerning the Pingat Jasa medal.

I understand why you might have found my comments disappointing. However,
I remain of the view that veterans should not be formally allowed
permission to wear the Pingat Jasa medal. It is long standing Government
policy that non-British medals are not approved for events or services if
the recipient has received a British award for the same service.

When the decision was announced on 31st January by Ian Pearson MP, it was
confirmed that there will be ‘occasions when specific circumstances
require exceptions to the rules to be recommended’. The Committee on the
Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals will therefore consider requests
on a case by case basis.

The Conservatives are currently undertaking a wide ranging policy review.
The shadow Defence team is aware of the strong feelings that this issue
has created, and will bear this is mind as the Party develops its policies
in the coming months.

I understand your strong feelings on this subject and I appreciate you
taking the trouble to write to me.

Yours sincerely

Caroline Spelman

More of the same old drivel!!!!

I will reply on the morrow!

Here is her very quick reply and mine to it

Dear Miss Spellman, I am very disappointed as you very fast reply means that you have not taken the trouble to read those excellent documents that I sent to you.

If you had you will have seen that it is not a long standing rule of the government and that there have been many foreign awards to members of the Armed Forces that have been accepted throughout the history of this country.

I have read the content of your reply to Ian Ramsey, Michaels agent, who believes, like me, that you are a very good MP and that you have taken the bait thrown out to discredit this award by the government hook line and sinker. Despite your opinion, veterans WILL wear this medal openly in flagrant breach of these so called rules (including me) and in front of Her Majesty if necessary so Tony Blair and his police state will have the opportunity to arrest countless veterans.

I reiterate, please read the documents that I sent to you and have an informed opinion.

Regards

John Ireland

Member for Lickhill Ward NWDC
01249 811910
www.lickhillconservatives.org.uk



-----Original Message-----
From: Caroline Spelman [mailto:carolinespelmanmp@mistral.co.uk]
Sent: 22 September 2006 13:55
To: John Ireland
Subject: Re: The Pingat Jasa Malaysia

Dear Mr Ireland,

Thank you for your email concerning the Pingat Jasa medal.

I understand why you might have found my comments disappointing. However,
I remain of the view that veterans should not be formally allowed
permission to wear the Pingat Jasa medal. It is long standing Government
policy that non-British medals are not approved for events or services if
the recipient has received a British award for the same service.

When the decision was announced on 31st January by Ian Pearson MP, it was
confirmed that there will be ‘occasions when specific circumstances
require exceptions to the rules to be recommended’. The Committee on the
Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals will therefore consider requests
on a case by case basis.

The Conservatives are currently undertaking a wide ranging policy review.
The shadow Defence team is aware of the strong feelings that this issue
has created, and will bear this is mind as the Party develops its policies
in the coming months.

I understand your strong feelings on this subject and I appreciate you
taking the trouble to write to me.

Yours sincerely

Caroline Spelman[/b]

Another politician with her head stuck where sun and reason do not shine.
Dear Ms Spelman
I read with sinking heart, your reasons for supporting what is an immoral, patronising and archaic argument for depriving 35 000 loyal (or should that be formerly loyal) British veterans of their just rights in this matter. You have trotted out the same old myths that we have heard before. As for stating that to allow the PJM to be worn would be unfair to those who served in other campaigns but did not receive a medal is, quite frankly, preposterous. It is the sort of egalitarian claptrap put out by those of political persuasions opposite to the Conservative party, which says that everyone must be treated the same no matter what and which has left our education system in such a parlous condition.
But yet that argument does have some validity when applied to the PJM. British veterans are banned from wearing a medal that all other Commonwealth veterans can wear. This is not a case of being unfair to veterans who served in campaigns where no medal was awarded, but actually discriminating one set of veterans against another within the same Campaign.
I urge you to take a little time to examine what we say on www.fight4thepjm.org, where you will find logical reasoning to back our cause. It is a dangerous practice for a politician to trample on the rights and wishes of such a large number of voters.


_________________
Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)

Posted on behalf of Andy Nicholl/McDangle who is having Computer Probs with this posting

Dear Caroline Spelman,

In your letter to Mr. McDonald you stated that you supported the government in their decision not to allow the PJM medal to be worn by veterans.

This is a shameful and derogatory declaration against an honourable medal for honourable service carried out on behalf of Queen and Country in the stinking jungles and swamps of Malaya and Borneo. Not only this, but discrimination against British Citizens when their comrades in arms from Australia and New Zealand have been premitted by the same Queen to accept and wear the PJM.

David Mundell MP for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, has worked very hard on behalf of Malaya/Borneo veterans, many who served in the Kings Own Scottish Borderers, to try and have this disgraceful decision altered and yet you now work against him with your
awful statement. It is very sad to see Conservative MP's working against each other and although David Mundell will get my vote, people like you will not.

It would say more for your decision if you acquainted yourself with the background to our campaign and read our Rebuttal and Update which is now in the hands of the FCO. A petition has been made to The Queen and one to the Scottish Parliament Public Petitions committee.
Regards,
A. Nicoll
Name and address supplied


_________________
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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Herewith my letter to this MP:

VIC 3084
AUSTRALIA



Ms Caroline Spelman MP
2 Manor Road
Solihull
West Midlands B91 2BH
United Kingdom


23 September 2006


Dear Ms Spelman

Pingat Jasa Malaysia (PJM)- (Malaysian Service Medal)
I was disappointed to learn from other veterans that you support the government's position in not allowing veterans to wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia medal. This decision taken by the HD committee and the FCO was a grave error of judgement .

You may be interested to know that for many veterans who served in Malaysia the PJM will be the only medal they receive since they never received a British campaign medal. As for the acceptance of foreign awards the policy over many decades has been inconsistent with many foreign awards having been accepted, more on the grounds of political expediency rather than following any pre determined rule book. The action of HMG has been a snub to the King and Government of Malaysia as well as to veterans who served in Malaysia.

Many eminent people hold the same view as me. Only last week Field Marshal Lord Bramall stated publicly that he would wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia . Tongue in cheek he joked that he would be prepared to be locked up in the tower of London. He view is shared by many senior former officers. Dame Vera Lynn and holders of the VC support veterans in the campaign to have the 'no wear' rule overturned.

I am lucky in that I have dual nationality and although I served in the British Army I have the blessing of the Queen of Australia to wear the medal on ANZAC day parades alongside Australian veterans. I am informed by the Cabinet Office Ceremonial Secretariat that whilst I can wear the medal in Australia no such permission exists should I want to wear it in the UK. The Governor General of Australia, the Queen's representative, can wear his PJM on formal occasions . He obtained his medal by virtue of the fact that he served on attachment to the British SAS in Borneo.

The Australian and New Zealand Governments have done everything possible to assist the Malaysian Government in verifying applications for the medal. They have assisted with the considerable cost of dispatching medals to recipients, or have assisted in presentations ceremonies. I am ashamed of the actions of the British Government in making us fight for what is ours and making us fight to make good the dishonour shown towards the people of Malaysia. Can you blame the Australian and New Zealand Government leaving the Imperial Honours system behind. Our cause has very solid support North of the border. Perhaps it is time Scotland left the Imperial Honours system behind.

Sadly MPs would appear to always follow a party line or are made to follow such a line by the party Whip. Perhaps if they took the trouble to do their own research and admit it when they had made an error of judgement the populace would think better of them.

I ask that you carefully research this matter and see if you can reconsider your position.




Yours sincerely




Hamish Waters
Borneo Veteran, British Army

http://www.fight4thepjm.org

A brilliant letter Hamish, as you say ''I am ashamed of the actions of the British Government "

Couldn't agree more, I think they ought to be ashamed of themselves


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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Do you know what upsets me most about all this??the person or persons who made this ridiculous descision does not have the guts to stand up in public and say it was me!!
Reading these postings and discovering the hypocrisy that abounds within the corridors of power makes me even more determined to wear MY MEDAL at every opportunity.
Let those faceless wonders meet me one to one and I'll show them just how totally peed off we all are.


_________________
Hold the line steady boys.