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The shameful hypocracy of it all!
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Post Hypocrisy 
Barry / George...

I have read, and re-read, the preceding exchange with a feeling of mounting disbelief... If we are to consider this as typical of "advice" given to Her Majesty, then there can be little wonder at the waning popularity of the British Monarchy as an institution.

It occurs to me that those responsible for the selection of individuals for membership in the HD committee must have strong corporate affiliation with Ringling Brothers...How else could they possibly assemble such large body of clowns?

'Jock'.

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Post Re: Hypocrisy 
'Jock' Fenton wrote:
I have read, and re-read, the preceding exchange with a feeling of mounting disbelief...

Exactly. Jock, when we receive letters like that our intrinsic trust in those selected to make such decisions is shattered. They declare themselves to be oafs.

WWI was called "The Death of Innocence" for exactly these reasons - the men lost faith in those who were supposed to be leading them. Many of their superiors were seen to be incompetent and insensitive buffoons who had been promoted well beyond their competence. Some should never have been in uniform at all.

And the pity of it all is that there were so many courageous men as well. I am in the middle of of a book (writing as opposed to reading) and my research continually reminds me just how much injustice is perpetrated on those least able to 'defend' themselves by incompetents who are in situ only because of their privileged birth'right'.

I remain a supporter of a constitutional monarchy, but I wonder how long it can last with plonkers like the HD Committee advising them how to screw it all up.

This web site is non-political - my points above express only my frustration over the undemocratic nature of the British Establishment.


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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I couldn't agree more! Its a wonder the Monarchy survives today after all this rubbish from the Establishment

Did any of you guys ever read The Mutiny in the RAF in 1946 which spread right throughout the Far East and into the Army in Malaya

http://www.socialisthistorysociety.co.uk/raf04.htm

From the HD committee and its decisions similar mutinous behaviour here too, no wonder guys get uptight!


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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Post Pawns and Pawning 
John Cooper wrote:
Its a wonder the Monarchy survives today after all this rubbish from the Establishment

Did any of you guys ever read The Mutiny in the RAF in 1946 which spread right throughout the Far East and into the Army in Malaya

John, they are walking on water at the mo'! I'm going to read up on that bit of history - I didn't know about it.

I was reminded recently about how men returning from WWI were let down yet again, 'enjoyed' a life of poverty and had to pawn their medals. On Remembrance Day parades veterans sported their pawn tickets pinned to their left chest (without formal permission?).

Thus the pawns of war had to pawn their medals ... and their clothes ... to buy a pint. "Pop goes the weasel", as the rhyme goes. It was only after many years of chanting that nursery rhyme that my father (ex-soldier and anti-establishment as a result of what he experienced) gently told me it was all about pawning clothes to raise cash (to buy a pint at the Eagle pub in City Road!). Pop (pawn) your weasel (weasel was a corruption of whistle .. which came from the cockney rhyming slang 'whistle and flute' - suit).

Err ... I digress (it's the Londoner in me coming out) ... but not by much! The fact of the matter is that veterans are not of great interest to HMG. They never have been. And, yes, we've a right to get uptight about that.


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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As everyone can see from the writings of Barry, George, Jock et al this is a long 'war' which will never be resolved, because of the centuries of traditionalism in this country, from the guy who lifted his visor 800 years ago in chivalrous combat to saluting the Queens Commission today, nothing changes.

I quote the following from one of my web pages Just to clarify the difference of The Goldfish Club, The Caterpillar Club, and The Flying (Winged) Boot Club.

The Goldfish Club: One had to be rescued/survived an aircraft ditching from the sea where their life preserving equipment saved their life.

The Caterpillar Club: One had to parachute (bale out) from his stricken aircraft and survive, if that person landed 'in the drink' he then also qualified for membership of The Goldfish Club.

The Flying (Winged) Boot Club: One had to come down behind enemy lines from their aircraft and return to their unit, usually on foot! They could also become members of the above two clubs if the criteria aforementioned applied.

Briefly The Goldfish Club was established in 1942 for fliers that for one reason or other ended up in the sea/river/lake/canal after their aircraft was shot down or forced to ditch and were saved by their survival gear ie Dinghy or Mae West (Life preserver). At the cessation of hostilities in 1945 there were some 7000 members of the Goldfish Club, in 2003 there are about 600 members worldwide


John Cooper


These badges could not be worn to be seen as they were not recognised by those in authority, no permission was sought as no permission would be granted but unofficially everyone wore these badges under the left breast flap indicating their own survival not recognised by those in the military but by civilians


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John Cooper wrote:
I quote the following from one of my web pages

John, Can you point us all to your web pages where we can read up on this? Thanks.


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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30 Pages of fighting the Establishment over 46 years since March 1st 1960

Get started here http://splashdown2.tripod.com/id17.html you guys have a lllloooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnngggggggg way to go!!!!


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Post LEGAL ORDER OR NOT. 
Most of you will know that - when is an order not an order? - WHEN IT IS NOT A LEGAL ORDER!
The order not to wear the PJM is not a legal order and can never be. We are civilians and not subject to such orders ie. The HD Committee is an unelected quango and cannot give orders to civilians, or anybody else for that matter. Her Majesty the Queen can give us peasants 'commands' but in this case her orders cannot be legal because of the ambiguous and illogical circumstances in that she allowed others to wear the PJM but not her own serfs. Ian Pearson gave orders in his Written Ministerial Statement on 31st. January, 2006, but he is an individual Member of Parliament and cannot personally give orders to civilians. So there you have it. If they do not see the error of their ways and change their illegal order then we can wear the PJM with impunity.
As I am in a typing mood let me transgress slightly. Baroness Symonds of Verham Dean - I am sure we all remember her but she seems to have gone to ground since making her statement that 'All British Citizens require permission FROM HMG to accept and wear foreign state awards. HMG - Her Majesty's Government. Not Her Majesty, not a Government Committe, and Not an individual Government Minister, but HMG. So there you have it, the order that permission was not granted to wear it (PJM) formally is not worth the paper it was written on. I also came across the following which sums up my feelings right now -
THE CONFLICT YOU ENTER,
THEN ASK FOR OUR HELP,
WELL NEXT TIME IT HAPPENS,
TRY DOING IT YOURSELF.
They will know they have had a good battering before we are finished with them.
Tis said that Kings can do no wrong,
Their murderous deeds deny it,
And, since from us their power is sprung,
We have a right to try it. Rabbie Burns.

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Post Lets Whack Them. 
Glad to see you had a good education George which included the wonderful words of Scotland's second bard, McGonigle. I agree with you completely and I am going to hammer this 'unlawful order' point. I feel a letter coming on. I am going to try the Glasgow Herald Defence Correspondent first to see if he is interested. Will let you know. Has anyone seen Baroness Symonds, I do hope she is well. David Blunkett being on board is excellent. I think he has a chip on his shoulder about this government, mind you he is not alone. You'll never walk alone David - I also feel a song coming on.

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George F wrote:


But to impose such rules on British civilian veterans who are not on the armed forces pay roll and (who cannot be policed) is utter anachronistic nonsense in the 21st Century.

George


I was just thinking - I do that very infrequently these days.

What if one of us "Confrontasi" veterans becomes a Chelsea Pensioner?

Would he be allowed to wear his PJM.

Under the current "rules" of this disgraceful committee, the answer has to be no.


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Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
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Post Traitor's Gate 
[quote="Iceni"]
George F wrote:
What if one of us "Confrontasi" veterans becomes a Chelsea Pensioner?

We were told recently by a PJM'er that Yeomen of the Guard at HM Tower of London (who are eligible for the PJM) had asserted their intent to wear their medal!

As you infer ... matters are different at the other end of town!


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Post Integrity, Integrity, Integrity 
Very interesting developments today concerning peerages. It seems that the man who keeps the accounts for the Labour Party was unaware of some very large loans that were taken out by someone in the Party. In parallel with this revelation comes the news that 3 people who loaned the dosh were then put up/knocked down/considered/not considered for peerages. The Electoral Commission has been asked to investigate the matter. Now call me an old cynic if you wish, but one of the reasons given by the Cabinet Office - Ceremonial Secretariat in the letter to Barry on 2nd Feb 2006, for not authorising the wearing of the PJM was that "doing so would compromise previous awards and the integrity of the system. Integrity. Interesting word. There are 3 definitions in my dictionary: 1. adherence to moral principles; honesty; 2. the quality of being unimpared; soundness; 3. unity; wholeness. So, if a large loan to the party in power can ease the lender's way to a high honour, which definition is being used to describe "the integrity of the system"? And - which definition is being compromised by allowing 35 000 British veterans to wear a medal that has been honestly earned and graciously offered?


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Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)
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Post Integrity my Foot. 
It is a question of MIND over MATTER - they don't mind and we don't matter but freedom must be defended against greed and power.

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