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Deaths: Malaya-Borneo & Northern Ireland
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Post Re: Deaths: Malaya-Borneo & Northern Ireland (troubles) 
George F wrote:
"MALAY EMERGENCY & BORNEO CONFRONTATION 1948 to 1966"

Total deaths: 13,733

"NORTHERN IRELAND EMERGENCY 1968 to 1998"


Total deaths: 3978


George, are you referring to the MoD/FCO/HD Committee assertion that the risk and rigour test in Malaysia should be applied to deny not only a British medal to the majority of those who served in Malaya Borneo, but also the PJM itself?

Yet British medals have been awared throughout the 30 years of the Northern Ireland troubles and one is still being awarded despite the 'ceasefire' of the last couple of years?

Are British medals awarded on political as well as risk and rigour criteria??? I hope not. But I have a sneaking suspicion that they are. Look at the Russian medal that was rejected for 5 years before being awarded when the UK decided that Russia was politcially correct. And the Malta medal, also previously denied, but awarded in the year the Queen went to Malta.

This argument is not one you and I, or any of the PJMers, would want to pursue. It's an unacceptable argument that has been raised not by us but by the MoD/FCO and HD Committee when trying to justify their shameful and anomalous recommendation. They should never have done that. Medals should not be issued on a body count basis.

We remember all those who have served in Northern Ireland, many our own ex-comrades in arms, and we are aware of the sacrifices they have made serving their country.

You live in Northern Ireland (in a deeply troubled part of Belfast) and have done so throughout the troubles. I understand that you are not making a judgement. Because we are not into body counts and in any case the PJM is all about the successful and primarily peaceful strategy we employed in Malaysia to beat terror and agression. That policy was all about avoiding bloodshed whenever possible and working with the gracious Malaysian people to beat a determined and dangerous enemy that was backed by both China and Russia at the same time!


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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George. I understand the principle behind your commitments that remind us of the past. I agree all heartily, that whilst we need to seek justice for those that are still with us. The greater injustice is towards those that paid the ultimate price, and the families that were left behind. I encourage you to continue in your endeavours, and applaud all of the efforts of the NMBVA to acheive that goal. It is not just about us------------Lest we forget. Regards Aye Henry Higgins

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Post Re: Deaths: Malaya-Borneo & Northern Ireland (troubles) 
George F wrote:
Indeed by the time the GSM (Northern ireland clasp) ceases to be issued in 2007 all British service personnel who have served in Northern Ireland from 1997 to 2007 will have received this (Risk & Rigour) campaign medal without experiencing a shot being fired for 10 years.

I wonder what Mr Coney from the MOD and the HD committee have to say? Not to forget Rear Admiral Wilkinson, he's probably still hiding under Mr Coney's desk.


I do not begrudge anyone a medal they have been awarded. And what I say is about the PJM not other awards. But what you have posted prompts a thought ....

Does the service you mention above count towards the award of the Accumulated Campaign Service Medal?

And if it does result in an Accumulated Campaign Service Medal (for which no campaign service is required), does that mean somebody would wear two medals for the same service?

Nah ... that can't be possible ... can it? The MoD itself instituted the Accumulated Campaign Service medal ... and the MoD are totally against any form of double medalling. It brings them out in a rash. So that can't be right .... can it?

Especially as the MoD do not even want to recognise the existence of the PJM for the majority of those eligible for the medal who do not have any British medal toshow for their service.

I must have it wrong.

Barry


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Post Re: Deaths: Malaya-Borneo & Northern Ireland (troubles) 
George F wrote:
... but are not both the MOD and the HD committee practicing double standards and hypocrisy here, when they refused Malay Borneo veterans the right to wear the PJM medal because of doublemedaling, yet can approve of all these three medals for the one campaign. Is this not triple-medaling?


Exactly.

Yet again we have demolished the first and primary objection to the PJM - double-medalling - put forward by the MoD, the FCO and the HD Committee.

It has always been a specious argument in relation to the PJM whose scope is wider than any British Award.

It has always been a surious argument. What relevance does it have to a Foreign Decoration? None. It is simply an excuse to try and give their mean-minded and shameful recommendation some sort of semblance of reason.

And why did Australia and New Zealand have so little difficulty in graciously accepting the award for wear when our buttock-clenching team of decision makers spent a year to arrive at a complete hash of a 'compromise' - one that satisfies no-one and snubs the Malaysian people into the bargain.


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