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mcdangle
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1027
Location: Scotland
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) No Medals for Heroes.
In an astonishing slap in the face from the establishment, reportedly from our Prime Minister, three civilians who tackled suicide bombers at Glasgow Airport and foiled the 30th. June, 2007, attack on the airport have been refused medals for bravery.
Holidaymaker Michael Kerr, suffered a broken leg and smashed teeth when he helped fight off the attackers, Stephen Clarkson, wrestled the suicide bomber and driver of the car to the ground and helped to restrain him, and Alex McIlveen, a taxi driver, tore a tendon in his foot during the struggle.
John Smeaton, an airport worker who also assisted, was awarded the Queen’s Gallantry Medal but the others who showed such bravery and courage tackling suicide bombers who were intent on murder and mayhem have been refused any recognition. Although the Scottish Sunday Mail named the eleven people who tackled the bombers Great Scots of 2007.
In a letter from a Senior Civil Servant, in the Cabinet Office, Mr. Dennis Brennan, who advises the Prime Minister on medals, and is Secretary of the George Cross Committee, it was stated that the men’s actions, ‘though praiseworthy, did not reach the standard for a gallantry award’. The letter also said that there had to be a conscious decision to go forward knowing the risk for a considerable length of time rather than simply being caught up in events (where have we heard such inane words before?). John Smeaton who was awarded the Queen’s Gallantry Medal supported an award to these three men and stated ‘We all behaved exactly in the same way. It is wrong that I am the only one to get the medal as the others are as equally deserving. I disagree with this decision’.
It is said that Brennan’s letter was written on behalf of our Prime Minister, Gordon ‘I’ll look into it’ Brown. Perhaps I am being naïve in thinking that British citizens who acted bravely in support of our community and our nation could at least have been told the reason they are not being awarded a medal from the Prime Minister instead of a Civil Servant flunkey saying he is writing on behalf of the PM.
Makes you ashamed to be British!
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Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:13 pm |
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jireland
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 566
Location: Wiltshire
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You are right McD and I concur with your sentiment, I also am ashamed to be British!
John
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Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:20 pm |
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ro5=6372
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 1763
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..
Last edited by ro5=6372 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:22 pm |
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GLOman
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 668
Location: Northamptonshire
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) NO MEDALS FOR HEROES
If there ever was a reason to get rid of the likes of Brennan and an urgent need to change the Honours and Awards system, this is it. How can you define what is a 'gut reaction' from 'concious decision' in what is probably a split second. If in fact, it was decided to assist those already trying to restrain those intent upon bombing and assistance was undoubtedly needed then it has been a concious decision to put themselves at risk. Only someone who has no idea of risk or rigour could make such an assessment from the comfort of a Whitehall office - a touch of the "Its Departmental Policy, (Prime) Minister".
These heroes have suffered from the same mind-set that we have encountered over three years. It is difficult not to conclude that the restrictions put upon others, rightfully entitled to recognition for their actions, are not applied to Civil Servants and their OBE's and above for simply doing their job.
POLITICIANS! DO YOUR JOB - NO MORE AUTOMATIC " I AM REPLYING ON BEHALF OF ....". - LET US SEE THE END OF THE VARIOUS DEPARTMENTAL AND HD COMMITTEE NONESENSE, AND FOR DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED MINISTERS TO START QUESTIONING THE ACTIONS AND DECISIONS OF THEIR ADVISERS.
THE IMPORTANT QUESTION NOW, IS, DOES THE PRIME MINISTER HIMSELF REALLY BELIEVE THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE DESERVING OF RECOGNITION, AND IF NOT WHY NOT - FORGET THE CIVIL SERVICE ASSESSMENT OF RISK/RIGOUR.
IF HE DOES REGARD THEM AS WORTHY OF RECOGNITION, THEN FOR GOODNESS SAKE OVER-RIDE BRENNAN AND INSIST ON AN AWARD BEING GIVEN - THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR HIM NOT DOING SO! FOR THOSE NOT CONSIDERED FOR BRAVERY AWARDS, MBE'S FOR PUBLIC SPIRITEDNESS/COMMUNITY SERVICE COULD BE AWARDED - IT JUST WANTS SOME IMAGINATION.
Last edited by GLOman on Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:49 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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Words fail me
This is the man who dishes out the gongs to all and sundry in the Civil Service and beyond but cannot dare to come to terms in honouring the brave, how unBritish
_________________ --------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:01 pm |
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mcdangle
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1027
Location: Scotland
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) Broon.
Yes all, it is a question of Broon Ale - he's bottled it again!!
If the heroes in question were of an ethic minority do you think the question of no award would have been considered. Not in my lifetime. This just goes to show just how far down the road to hell in a wheel barrow this country has gone.
If there are any decent people left in our establishment or at Westminster then give these brave men a medal -they deserve it. Also, bye the way give us the right to wear the PJM you know both are justified and honourable.
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Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:23 pm |
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StanW
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 236
Location: Halesowen, West Midlands
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""
Last edited by StanW on Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:58 pm |
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GLOman
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 668
Location: Northamptonshire
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) NO MEDALS FOR HEROES
This has gone off to the Scottish Sunday Mail and been accepted, as you can see:
http://forums.sundaymail.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=174
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Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:29 pm |
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MB
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 807
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) Heros and medals.
MB.
Last edited by MB on Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
_________________ Mike Barton
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Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:59 pm |
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MB
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 807
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) A PS from my wife.
Last edited by MB on Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
_________________ Mike Barton
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Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:45 pm |
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StanW
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 236
Location: Halesowen, West Midlands
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""
Last edited by StanW on Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:23 am |
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ro5=6372
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 1763
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..
Last edited by ro5=6372 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:40 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:38 am |
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'Jock' Fenton
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1222
Location: Ontario, Canada
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) Re: NO MEDALS FOR HEROES
[ Quote:GLOman"]This has gone off to the Scottish Sunday Mail and been accepted, as you can see:
.....Bravo GLOman!....it's great to note that you have once again skilfully managed to place the Fight4 in public view.....how much more effective it is to write a couple of intelligently worded paragraphs to a newspaper rather than exchanging meaningless reminiscences and irrelevant prattle as some of our contributors to this Forum persist in doing.
Clearly you are an adherent to the wisdom that the best method of killing time is to work it to death....
I salute you....
_________________ ...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:42 pm |
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mcdangle
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1027
Location: Scotland
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) Re: No Medals for Heroes.
StanW wrote:Rules...Rules...Rules...
Quote:
"5. Put more simply the honours system is our way, within our cultural history, of saying thank you, publicly."
"45. The number of honours going to the State service decreased considerably in the 1960s."
"46. The honours system was further reformed in 1993 - One of the main criticisms at that time was that the honours system was too generous"
"Many other countries do the same"
Sorry, I didn't quite get that at 5 above "Put more simply the honours system is our way" Ah right, nothing to do with Parliament or the will of the people, I see.
"Many other countries do the same" (...and look what happened to the PJM)
Just another twomatchstick event by Champion Of Veterans affairs 'Snooze'n Gordon'
Stan
Stan,
I think it is their way of saying we do not have to apply the rules, these are made for the British public. As far as we Civil Servants are concerned the rules are discretionary (we can use them in any way we want) and we are guided by principles as long as they are our principles.
In the present case, we again have a Senior Civil Servant, who previously hid behind our Sovereign to deny us the right to wear our PJM and has used the rules to deny the London Gazette of 1968 giving us the right to wear the PJM, and is now hiding behind our Prime Minister but what I would like to know is - 1. did Gordon Broon actually say that these citizens should not be awarded something for their bravery. 2. did Gordon Broon give his authority to a letter from a Civil Servant being sent in his name to these people and 3. who gives this civil servant the authority to interfere with British citizens when his sole responsibility is to serve the government and British citizens, not dictate to them.
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Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:38 am |
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GLOman
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 668
Location: Northamptonshire
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![Post Post](templates/ca_aphrodite_green/images/icon_post.gif) NO MEDALS FOR HEROES
Andy,
Your points 1,2 and 3, absolutely the right questions, but who will admit to allowing this Civil Servant to continually get away with it and to do something about it?
Mr G Brown, himself? If he hasn't got the nerve to do it, what about him referring the matter to the Head of the Civil Service with reference to the Civil Service Code which he, as the H of CS, introduced himself or are we to take it that this was the usual spin to make it look as if it was a serious attempt to constrain the antics of his CS, perhaps another unsuitable choice?
What can we expect of our democratically elected members of Parliament, such as those who signed the EDMs and supported our case in the debate. I think that it is about time the 'gloves came off', forget about the niceties of procedure, and for the MP's of all Parties, as they have so far, support a definite move to get this person and system sorted out! Such a move could act as a 'wake up' call to the CS in all other Departments of Government to realise that this Country is run by Parliament and not by Civil Servants and perhaps no more costly mistakes for the taxpayers and voters!
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Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:14 pm |
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