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Brown unveils constitutional reforms.
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Barry & all,

Do any of you think these reforms may help elected MP's (like the ones who signed Don Touhig's EDM) have more authority over the non elected HD committee members which we all know hide behind royal prerogative when they have not the guts to accept they made a total boo boo advising the Queen to refuse veterans the right to wear the PJM?

'Brown unveils constitutional reforms'

'Confirming that he would extend more powers to MPs, the prime minister announced plans to give up or relax his royal prerogative in 12 areas.'

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/zopinion-former-index/legal-and-constitutional/brown-unveil-constitutional-reforms-$475590.htm

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CC to other HMG ministers & civil servants at Whitehall.

<denis.brennan@cabinet-office.x.gsi.gov.uk>, <peter.ricketts@fco.gov.uk>, <Bill.Jeffrey480@mod.uk>

Dear members of the HD committee

So much for the recent Review of the Honours System by Sir Hayden Phillips Permanent Secretary to the Department for Constitutional Affairs, with special responsibility for the honours system
on behalf of the Cabinet Secretary.

http://www.honours.gov.uk/upload/assets/www.honours.gov.uk/honours_reform_command_paper.pdf.

I draw your attention to Page 4 b} were Sir Hayden Phillips states:
Those who chair the specialist committees which advise on recommendations should be independent of Government and the Civil Service to encourage a more open and independent system.

Since when are any of the eight members of the HD committee who advised The Queen on 7th December 2005 to refuse veterans permission to wear the PJM medal independent of government and the civil service?

Why was any change to The HD committee for veterans been totally overlooked in this review? Surely a choice of representatives from the RBL, RNA and the RAF association would have been a token gesture for starters when dealing with consultation and decisions over foreign medals awarded to veterans who are no longer in service of the crown?


Yours sincerely

Malay Borneo Veteran
Name & Address given

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Post CONSTITUTIONAL REFORM 
NEE SOON

I tried logging on to the reference you gave. GUESS WHAT? PAGE NOT FOUND!

But note it is not a server notice eg 'Google' or other, IT IS A STATEMENT BY THE CABINET OFFICE. What are they up to now?

Funny? Withdrawn so that they can have the bits they don't like removed before its too late and they and the HD Committee
are rightly removed from their sinecures. I don't trust any of them; you can bet that they won't go down without a fight.
Integrity of the honours system? BAH!




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Post Honours reform 
David - go to ::

www.honours.gov.uk

In the 'Search' box at the top left of the page type 'honours reform command paper.pdf'

It will take you straight there.

Tony


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Post Honours and Decorations 
Tony,

Thanks for that. Though the little that I have seen from HMG response (Cabinet Office?) makes me think that my comments above are not too far out.

regards,

David

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Post Re: CONSTITUTIONAL REFORM 
GLOman wrote:
NEE SOON

I tried logging on to the reference you gave. GUESS WHAT? PAGE NOT FOUND!]


Just go to goggle and type in:

"Review of the Honours System
by Sir Hayden Phillips"

[PDF]7893 Honours System 3rd
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
This is the first published report of a review of the Honours system in this country by someone. who has been closely involved in running it. ...
www.honours.gov.uk/upload/assets/www.honours.gov.uk/honours.pdf - Similar pages [PDF]


Its a 92 page document.

Download and then go to page 4.

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On September 05 I emailed the following to Mr Brennan...
=====================================

Dear Mr Brennan,

Having read the recent position of the HD Committee as stated, in 6 pages, at: http://www.honours.gov.uk/upload/assets/www.honours.gov.uk/pjm_rebuttal2.pdf

Permit me to register my dismay at its total misrepresentation and contrived disinformation...and it's one-sided nature. Once again we are treated to a verbose rewording of the previously stated position of the HD Committee regarding the Pingat Jasa Malaysia....and again, one that seeks only to provide the illusion of credibility to that committee's original, inept and unjust conclusion.

That this document miscarries is not in question...it misconstrues throughout but it fails massively via a singular 'sin of omission' on a salient point...the crucial item omitted from it's text is that of reference to the irrefutable wording of the May 3rd 1968 London Gazette Notice and it's relevance to the rights of all recipients of foreign medals...no literate person, considering the wording of that notice, could come to any conclusion other than that it, unequivocally, grants recipients of the PJM the right to wear that honour.

No revision of, or documented exclusion from, the London Gazette text has ever been published and consequently we must conclude that Her Majesty's 1968 word on the topic remains statutory and extant. HD Committee claims, unsubstantiated by documentary proof that this notice does not apply to the PJM are, therefore, guaranteed to fall upon deaf ears.

The suggestion (and rather transparent device to divert attention away from those whose actions are in question) that complainants have unjustifiably questioned the integrity of the HD Committee is noted...and rejected.

It is widely felt that the committee is itself, wholly responsible for the tarnish that exists upon it's current image....and also, regrettably, for the ever diminishing respect with which the entire system of honours is now being regarded.The authors of this sub-standard subjective 'explanation' will recall that it was they who introduced the word 'integrity' when they referred to our honourable medal adversely affecting the integrity of their 'honours' system. In my view this document does speak volumes for the integrity - of the PJM ... and the absence of it amongst the document's authors.


The document also fails generally by representing a unilateral apologia for an action when the authors should have addressed all the issues raised by concerned and interested parties. For example, but not exclusively, why did they omit reference to the Malta 50th Anniversary Medal which was frequently raised by campaigners? And why did they omit reference to the 40-odd medals that have been set out for them, many of which impose a double medal, while so many others have double medal 'potential'?

The same applies with regard to the 5-year rule. Many have expressed concern that, with so many examples as precedent, but not exclusively the Malta Medal and the Accumulated Campaign Service Medal, that 'rule' is implemented as a means of preventing ordinary people receiving earned honours, while being waived to ensure that the privileged may add to their "chocolate box" medals (Prince Charles description), such as the 25 year Antigua and Barbuda Medal.

I accuse the authors of this document of deliberately misleading, by omission and disinformation, The Queen, Parliament, The Media, and the people. This matter will not go away. Justice will prevail.

Meanwhile, it is pleasing to note that even the Ministers who once had to front your recommendation are now supporting our case (presumable because they had not been properly briefed and now understand the truth of the matter) ... as do all right-minded men and women of integrity.


Yours sincerely.

John 'Jock' Fenton.
=========================================

...today (October 03) I received an Airmail Letter containing the following text, which I copy in it's entirety...

" Dear Mr Fenton,

Mr Brennan has passed me your email of 5 September to me. Your comments have been noted.

Yours sincerely,
Abby Oshodi
Depute Team Leader."


...........................................rather terse, wouldn't you say?..........................


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Jock,

" ..........rather terse"? Not Lost for an adequate explanation?!

Is the end nigh? ( making for the lifeboats) or is Brennan's continued arrogance mean that we will
get replies from the 'B' Team only?

Evil or Very Mad



Last edited by GLOman on Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GLOman.....is the expression, 'cognitive dissonance', perhaps appropriate?


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Yeah!

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'Jock' Fenton wrote:
GLOman.....is the expression, 'cognitive dissonance', perhaps appropriate?


Jock,

Why don't you send her the copy of the Selangor Scotsman article for her information.

Bodach.

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'Jock' Fenton wrote:
On September 05 I emailed the following to Mr Brennan...

...today (October 03) I received an Airmail Letter containing the following text, which I copy in it's entirety...

" Dear Mr Fenton,

Mr Brennan has passed me your email of 5 September to me. Your comments have been noted.

Yours sincerely,
Abby Oshodi
Depute Team Leader."


...........................................rather terse, wouldn't you say?..........................


Jock,

Mr Brennan has absolutely no conscience. No honour(s). It is he, a civil servant of the most abominable kind, who spearheaded the anti-PJM campaign. The Cabinet Office is infested with the likes of him.

I was told about the stance of the suits in the Cabinet Office towards an honourable medal by a very high-ranking officer engaged with them (not in a dispute) on a medal project. That project had nothing to do with the PJM. That officer told me how the suits' played with the feelings and sensitivities of ex-servicemen, letting them think that their case was being properly reviewed while actually not giving their concerns and hopes any time at all. They worked on other matters for many months (doing nothing in relation the medal project in question) in order that the servicemen should think that their case was receiving thought, care and attention. In reality, they had made their decision on Day One, were never going to amend it, and acted only with contempt towards those who had served this country. It beggars belief, but I have no reason to doubt what that General told me.

And I do not doubt for one moment that the PJM, which has cost me and you over two years of our lives, received just as much serious consideration.

The response they sent to you is not short ... it speaks volumes for the contempt they have for us.

Barry


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BarryF wrote:
And I do not doubt for one moment that the PJM, which has cost me and you over two years of our lives, received just as much serious consideration.

The response they sent to you is not short ... it speaks volumes for the contempt they have for us.
Barry


...............While I agree Barry, that there is undeniable lack of respect shown by those civil servants of whom you speak, personally I do not count the hours (or days, weeks, months or years) that I have spent on this campaign, as a cost.

I prefer to look upon it as an opportunity to 'keep the faith' with my comrades of 50 years ago....I freely volunteered for this fight and I would infinitely prefer the company, approval (and occasional 'sarky' comment), of honest veterans, to the respect of such as Mr Brennan and his ilk.

In any case, by my reckoning, we, collectively, have won this fight by any measurement one can make...the only way for them to continue to deny the overwhelming force of our argument, as expressed in our rebuttal was, and is, for them to subside into petulant silence and claim that they 'have nothing further to add'.

The London Gazette notice is most definitely still extant and their only comment on that, is that it does not apply to us...a statement which they glibly issue without the benefit of any demonstrable proof....because there is none!

In addition to possessing no respect, honour or honesty, neither do they any longer retain any credibility....their organisation and the 'Imperial Honours System' that it so slavishly cossets, are anachronistic throwbacks, which simply cry out for prompt erasure and subsequent redefinition in democratic terms.

...................Glad to get that lot off my chest!!..............


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Just maybe it is time these people were made to read something like the following:

In the Envoi to his book "The Jungle Frontier - 22 Special Air Service in the Borneo Campaign 1963 - 1966", Peter Dickens writes :

“The Frontier on which British Forces operate is, firstly, the dividing line between civilization and barbarism, and to think that it has little significance for us because our life is an immutable natural order is dangerous. Wherever there is civilization, some barbarian will batter at its gates to plunder and enslave it, and we can only enjoy it if some of us are prepared to go out there and keep it at bay. It behoves us therefore to value our armed forces when times are quiet or the frontier is far away, aware that without them it could come closer and our friends be abandoned, to our shame as well as our disadvantage.

There is no law on the frontier. That is its second essence: no friendly policemen are on call and disputes are settled by bullets not judges, so that those who go there have no choice but to use force. Like so many cherished principles, the sanctity of human life is found in practice to depend on circumstances. Killing is sometimes justifiable even where law holds sway, and on the frontier it may be the only means of life and achievement. Its morality lies in ensuring that it is done in the name of civilization and there is no less drastic alternative, which the British soldier does, with intelligence and deep concern. The mental effort and self-discipline he needs to master – or forego – the use of force in circumstances where most brains would seize solid with terror was well illustrated in Malaya and Borneo, and to dismiss him as an unthinking man of violence is either naive or wicked.

Our soldiers, sailors and airmen serve the community to a degree equalled by few, since they willingly put their lives at risk to do so. More important still is their contribution to civilization itself, which is simply stated: it could not exist without them; and easily understood by those who have not shut their minds to understanding it. What may be harder to grasp is that they, understanding it well and accepting their awesome responsibility, are themselves highly civilized, deserving our support, our thanks, and – why not? – our hearts”

Off Topic? I think not.

It is as relevant to our armed forces today, as it was to our armed forces of many years ago. Today our fighting men and women are not given the treatment they so richly deserve, - why? In our case, the HD Committe et al seem totally unprepared to allow the token of a grateful people who simply wish to say "Thank you" - why ? Why on earth do the HD Committee find this so hard to understand or accept? Why can't they simply say "Hear hear"?

Unlike the grateful, warm and civilized people whom we did not abandon, they appear to have no idea whatever how to behave. Shame on them.


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Kentsboro wrote:
In the Envoi to his book "The Jungle Frontier - 22 Special Air Service in the Borneo Campaign 1963 - 1966", Peter Dickens writes :


It is a coincidence that I completed reading this book yesterday.

An excellent read. Well worth the read.


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