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Crown Servants
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Post Crown Servants 
Does anyone have a letter or email from any of the suits stating that we are still "CROWN SERVANTS" if so can you please let me have a copy, I will also the need name of the suit and date.
This is important.
Many thanks
Paul

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Post CROWN SERVANTS 
Paul,

Rolling Eyes Guess who?

Para 3, 2nd line:..........were doing so as Crown Servants. Although you are now
retired from the service the definition of 'Crown Servant' still applies.

copy attached.

Regards, David



How's that for service?

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Post Crown Servants. 
Paul,

In his letter dated 17-4-07 Ref. D/DS Sec?1102/11/2 Richard Coney says - You and your colleagues who bravely served in Her Majesty's Armed Forces during the Malaya conflict were doing so as Crown Servants. Although you are now retired from this service the definition of 'Crown Servant' still applies.

The above words were also used exactly by Dennis Brennan to Barry in his letter dated 22nd. March, 2007.

Abby Oshodi also used these words but I do not have a copy to hand.

After using the above words they then went on to confirm them by quoting Section 14 of the defunct 1969 Regulations, Part A - persons in the service of the Crown. Part B for persons not in the service of the Crown does not have a section 14. Hope this helps. Andy.

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Post Re: Crown Servants 
Paul Alders wrote:
Does anyone have a letter or email from any of the suits stating that we are still "CROWN SERVANTS" if so can you please let me have a copy, I will also the need name of the suit and date.
This is important.
Many thanks
Paul

Is this any good to you Paul

Dear Mr Birchall

Thank you for your email of 4 May regarding the announcement in the London Gazette of 3 May 1968 and your interpretation of that statement to the Pingat Jasa Malaysia.

I must inform you that the conclusion you have drawn from reading this article is incorrect. The announcement, as it states applies to UK citizens who are not servants of the Crown.

You and your colleagues, who bravely served in Her Majesty's Armed Forces during the Malaya conflict, were doing so as Crown servants. Although you are now retired from this service the definition of Crown servant still applies to this service. Indeed this was re-confirmed following the 1968 London Gazette announcement, in the FCO Regulations concerning Acceptance and Wear (Section A, Paragraph 14) as produced in 1969 namely:

14. Persons who have retired from the service of the Crown remain subject to these Regulations in so far as concerns the acceptance of Orders, decorations or medals offered in respect of services rendered before their retirement.

Therefore the HD Committee's final decison on the Pingat Jasa Malaysia remains applicable to you and your former colleagues.

Yours sincerely

Ms Abby Oshodi
Deputy Team Leader
Ceremonial Secretariat

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I thank you one and all, if there are more out there please post them on this site.
The more we get the more nails we will have.

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Post CROWN SERVANTS 
Paul, another ref;
See: "The Queen's Approval Given in 1968"
"Goto page 6"
Barry's Post, Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:46pm.

Brennan's reply to BarryF, unreferenced of 22 Mar 07
almost word for word as Coney's including the You and
your brave colleagues B******t.

Seems they were all at it!

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Post Banana Republic. 


So he has 31 medals.

The rules are applied to Orders, Decorations and Medals including campaign medals and commemorative medals
Medals that do not meet the standard crieria should not be allowed to be worn on the same basis as those that do.
The rules apply to all foreign awards that are designed to be worn.
The UK system guards against the proliferation of foreign medals.

These are some of the excuses given by the Honours and Decorations Committee regarding their decision not to allow the PJM to be worn. Also they said that they had to protect the integrity of the British Honours system.

Isn't there a strict rule that only campaign medals should be worn on the left chest?

Also isn't the Prince a serving 'servant of the Crown'. I am aware that our Sovereign is above the law but I was not aware of others being imune from our legal system and bureauprat rules.

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Count me out of bearing allegiance when HE gets to be The Head Honcho. I don't think he goes down too well with some of the antipodeans either.

Did you guys ever hear the story where HE was at the controls of a BAe 146 somewhere near Isla and pranged the kite halfway down the runway, you didn't, well I have a lot of friends that know the inside story to that one, pity the Squadron Bleeder took the rap in HIS place Rolling Eyes


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Post Honcho 
Iwill join you there with the allegiance business John, but at the risk of being unpopular - his medalship was not the captain of the aircraft.

The Sqn Ldr would have been a Qualified Flying Instructor, the captain of the aircraft, and sadly must take the rap.

What they throw at you is "You have the position and experience to pick up things before they get out of hand, and the responsibility to take the necessary action to correct it".

The fact that he was not flying the machine at the time is irrelevant. I just hope the board of enquiry didn't think it any different just because of who was with him. In his own defence, I suggest he (the good Sqn Ldr) should have said "I told him twice at that things were not shaping up quite as well as one would prefer, but he couldn't hear me over the sound of his jangling medals!".

There ain't no justice mate.

Tony


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I agree entirely Tony that the Captain is the Captain, I once knew a Navigator that was the Captain of an aircraft but he couldn't fly the thing, this is one of those quirks of Service life, someone has to carry the can officially, however HRH and his S/Ldr pilot were colleagues for 7 years. Every BoI has to apportion blame somewhere, imagine the scenario 'I'll take this into Islay' who is going to argue with HRH, anyway the OFFICIAL line is here but since then HRH has not piloted one single aircraft of 32 (Royal) Squadron RAF, oh by the way HRH was in the left hand seat! Rolling Eyes

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/CorporatePublications/AirSafetyandAviationPublications/MAAS/1990s/19940629RafBae146Cc2Ze700.htm

Click on the PDF file........


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Post Islay 
John, thanks for that PDF report, I had no idea that site existed. The incident made fascinating reading. As soon as I saw the runway headings available and the surface wind components, the alarm bells started ringing.

What a bloody disaster for goodness sake. Strange how is medalness hasn't flown since !! I have kept I have kept the details of that website in "Favourites". Thanks again.

Tony


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BACK FROM THE WW1 BATTLEFIELDS OF FRANCE AND BELGIUM,31 MEDALS EH? AND ONE STACKED AIRCRAFT ,NOT A PROBLEM.AS A SPEEDING HOOLIGAN AT 36 MPH GOT 3 POINTS AND £60,ON OUR ARCHAIC ROAD SYSTEM,ONE CAN ONLY PRESUME A SKODA FABIA VRS IS MORE OF A HANDFUL THAN ,AN AIRCRAFT

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Post Message to the Palace 
Using the Official Web Site of the Monarchy, I have sent this e-mail to Buckingham Palace, I wonder what the food is like at the Tower?

John

I was horrified to see that Sir Robin Janvrin has accepted unrestricted the 25th. Anniversary Medal of Antigua & Barbuda.

In the light of his antagonistic stand against the award of the PJM by Malaysia to the veterans of that campaign, this is hypocrisy of the most blatant kind and he should be ashamed of himself. He has become a figure of contempt by those veterans and his unprincipled behaviour has done a considerable amount of damage to the Monarchy. Her Majesty is the head of the Armed Forces but she is strangely quiet on this subject or is it that she does not get to see the comments being made because of her private secretary?

My first and foremost loyalty as an ex serviceman is to my Colonel in Chief, Her Majesty The Queen but there it ends. Those who pretend to govern in her name and those of Sir Robins ilk have earned my utter contempt


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Post Despair ! 
Talking civil servants, to my horror I saw that Des Browne keeps his role as Defence Secretary in the new Cabinet! Pass me the cut-throat.


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Post Re: Despair ! 
Kentsboro wrote:
Talking civil servants, to my horror I saw that Des Browne keeps his role as Defence Secretary in the new Cabinet! Pass me the cut-throat.


Here they all are, all 23 of them. I wonder who of this lot will support John Hutton MP, come out and openly support the fight 4 the right to wear the PJM medal?

Full list of Cabinet Ministers
http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page12165.asp

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